BB stealing paranoia?

W

watchtowel

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Total posts
583
Chips
0
Sometimes it seems like if you raise from sb with a good hand late in the game people think you are just stealing and shove. With hands like A10 I don't like calling if I don't need to. Sometimes I have made the call and they have showed up with trash like J3o and 24 etc. Anyone else experience crazy blind vs blind play?
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
I think BvB If its late and blinds are worth it i'll just shove, removes any possibility of being outplayed and makes it very hard for the BB to call without a monster
 
doops

doops

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Total posts
669
Chips
0
I think BvB If its late and blinds are worth it i'll just shove, removes any possibility of being outplayed and makes it very hard for the BB to call without a monster

Good idea. I may try it out here and there.

Of course, when I raise in SB, I am usually trying to steal. When the blinds and antes are huge, it's worth the try. And since I want my real hands to look just like the steal hands, I'm probably not going to shove.

I sure hate it, though, when the BB does have a monster.
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
IMO when you are trying to steal you still need a bit of a hand incase you get caught. SC's are good for this i think as you are never too far behind except v overpairs. If you are going to steal you don't wanna commit chips and then fold it makes you look incredibly weak, so just be very aggressive
 
doops

doops

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Total posts
669
Chips
0
IMO when you are trying to steal you still need a bit of a hand incase you get caught. SC's are good for this i think as you are never too far behind except v overpairs. If you are going to steal you don't wanna commit chips and then fold it makes you look incredibly weak, so just be very aggressive

I know. And I don't raise with nothing. Usually have a hand I figure will beat most. But if BB has me covered and shoves, that's usually a problem for me.

I don't care about "looking weak". That's an ego thing, IMO. I am trying to get further, and can't do that if I'm busted.
 
KingCurtis

KingCurtis

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Total posts
9,946
Awards
1
Chips
1
Imo it's good that ppl think you steal. Whenever you wake up with a monster, take the same line and raise, they may shove and bingo! They usually have a mediocre hand thinking you will fold, hands like AK and AQ will be very effective in the SB to BB shovers with A x(small card).

Don't be upset if they re-raise you, because if you are mad and cant make the call you shouldn't have raised in the first place! Expect to get shoved against in this situation. Also notes on players who do shove or are aggressive help this too!
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
I know. And I don't raise with nothing. Usually have a hand I figure will beat most. But if BB has me covered and shoves, that's usually a problem for me.

I don't care about "looking weak". That's an ego thing, IMO. I am trying to get further, and can't do that if I'm busted.
Not at all, its about if you try it again 20 hands later with a marginal hand and someone sees your fold vs resteal % is high and they reshove on you again taking advantage of the table image they have on you
 
tusabes

tusabes

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Total posts
243
Chips
0
Stack sizes are key to stealing as well. Mid stacks are best to steal against imo. Big stacks and small stacks are more likely to call light. As KingCurtis stated some note taking can help you to figure out who defends and who submits their blinds.

Also if any body limps in front of me I open my steal range a bit b/c the limp adds value to the steal. If the steal works you have to note the limper b/c he will limp/fold again and again and again...
 
sCATpoker

sCATpoker

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Total posts
1,018
Chips
0
Not a huge fan of raising from sb on bb unless i got a pockt pair for the simple reason you are oop and have no clue what bb may have and if bb calls continuation bet and you flopped air with just two high cards your left wandering ...now what? and already got a lot of chips in if blinds are high...Id prefer to raise with bb in position to sb for the simple fact of position on sb.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
Chips
0
Also if any body limps in front of me I open my steal range a bit b/c the limp adds value to the steal. If the steal works you have to note the limper b/c he will limp/fold again and again and again...
Ok, I have come up with a few problems with this, lately I have had opportunities to steal when there are limpers before me but there is a problem with that.
I play micro tournies and run into alot and I mean alot of players who have stats similar to 45-50/0/50+, not only acting before me but acting after me and have a hard time stealing because of this.
How can I effectivly steal against such players?
 
Double-A

Double-A

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Total posts
787
Chips
0
Sometimes it seems like if you raise from sb with a good hand late in the game people think you are just stealing and shove. With hands like A10 I don't like calling if I don't need to. Sometimes I have made the call and they have showed up with trash like J3o and 24 etc. Anyone else experience crazy blind vs blind play?

Are you paying attention to stack sizes? Smaller stacks aren't good targets for steal attempts...

Some hands that you would raise/steal w/ against a medium stack become folds against a small stack.
 
tusabes

tusabes

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Total posts
243
Chips
0
Ok, I have come up with a few problems with this, lately I have had opportunities to steal when there are limpers before me but there is a problem with that.
I play micro tournies and run into alot and I mean alot of players who have stats similar to 45-50/0/50+, not only acting before me but acting after me and have a hard time stealing because of this.
How can I effectivly steal against such players?

You are correct that it's difficult to steal against people who limp/call preflop. Avoid stealing against these limp/callers. I'm talking about players who will limp/fold. You can find these players by paying attention when your not in a hand. Note when they make the limp/fold move and next time they attempt to limp jump into the pot. It can really help to accumulate chips late in tournaments. Limp/callers are easy enough to play against any way. I apologize but what do the stats 45-50/0/50+ mean?
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
Chips
0
You are correct that it's difficult to steal against people who limp/call preflop. Avoid stealing against these limp/callers. I'm talking about players who will limp/fold. You can find these players by paying attention when your not in a hand. Note when they make the limp/fold move and next time they attempt to limp jump into the pot. It can really help to accumulate chips late in tournaments. Limp/callers are easy enough to play against any way. I apologize but what do the stats 45-50/0/50+ mean?
The first number is how often they enter a pot, the second is how ofter they raise preflop and the third is the aggression frequency.
These are all percentages
 
O

Oil_Fan

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Total posts
189
Chips
0
The first number is how often they enter a pot, the second is how ofter they raise preflop and the third is the aggression frequency.
These are all percentages
Just to clarify. The first 2 deal with preflop stats. The first one is how ofter you voluntarily put money into the pot. Limping in as the BB doesn't count.

The second is how often they raise preflop. While it's also a percentage, it's has a direct correlation to the VP stat. If the first 2 stats are 40/20, he's raising preflop half the time he plays his hand.

The third stat is aggression as Shinedown has said. But it deals strictly with post flop play. Basically once you see the flop, of the times you can bet, what percentage of those are you raising.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,599
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Not at all, its about if you try it again 20 hands later with a marginal hand and someone sees your fold vs resteal % is high and they reshove on you again taking advantage of the table image they have on you

BUT.. they'll think it unlikely that you'll be raise/folding again (which could also equate to bein' able to raise a bit wider... & a bit sooner (or right away even)... 'but'.. you'll have to be on tables where players are actually 'thinking'... which is often not the case).
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,599
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
I know. And I don't raise with nothing. Usually have a hand I figure will beat most. But if BB has me covered and shoves, that's usually a problem for me.

quote]

So if we're raising with intentions of folding if/&/or when BB shoves allin back on us.... what difference does it make with what range of hands we're raising with? (having a decent hand... but one that we're considering folding is like 'turning a good hand into a bluff'.... so raising wider here would be pretty much the same thing.... no?)
 
Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Total posts
3,590
Chips
0
I think BvB If its late and blinds are worth it i'll just shove, removes any possibility of being outplayed and makes it very hard for the BB to call without a monster

This...

Imo it's good that ppl think you steal. Whenever you wake up with a monster, take the same line and raise, they may shove and bingo! They usually have a mediocre hand thinking you will fold, hands like AK and AQ will be very effective in the SB to BB shovers with A x(small card).

Don't be upset if they re-raise you, because if you are mad and cant make the call you shouldn't have raised in the first place! Expect to get shoved against in this situation. Also notes on players who do shove or are aggressive help this too!

& this.

Both of those strategies (IMO) are a lil contradicting when you compare them. But, both can be profitable, so find the 1 that works for you.

GL on your transition
 
Last edited:
B

bssman334

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Total posts
1
Chips
0
hey experienced answer

Hey First post on site.
Being a card player for many years... Small blind and big blind usually seem to wake up with a big hand at any point in the game... but no one seems to think that when it comes down to the last 3 players (Dealer, sb, bb) that they are so shocked that they wake up with qq,jj,AA, I have one buddy who constantly gets knocked out of tournament late because they make a move from button or small blind and get slaughtered. i say to him hey how did you get knocked out... he says... "Effin big blind woke up with tens and i shoved with my a9"... Giive me a effin break. Every story ends like this when this person gets knocked out. I taught him how to play the game 5 years ago, but never mentioned... "hey why dont you you take 5 minutes and think about your gameplay and change the way you play when it gets short handed. Mastering your game when short handed is very crucial! so sit down and contemplate every option!!! When late in a tourny people will snap you with basically any ace2 through Ak sometimes k blank as well, so always keep an eye out and spot tells from the people you play against. Pick your spots correctly and you will prevail. play if your hand if it is worth it and/or shortstacked, but if meaningless, stay away, there is another hand after the hand you fold. Think about it, It is still a 60/40. I HAVE SO MUCH INFORMATION STORED IN MY HEAD ABOUT CARDS. My question is too everyone... does anybody know a website that gives out free staking to poker????
And if you like my post please reply
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
BUT.. they'll think it unlikely that you'll be raise/folding again (which could also equate to bein' able to raise a bit wider... & a bit sooner (or right away even)... 'but'.. you'll have to be on tables where players are actually 'thinking'... which is often not the case).
This exactly, but I don't think there are many players who will go to the trouble to more than level 1 thinking at micros and probably low stakes
 
Top