Bad players and antes.

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WiZZiM

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Quick question.

Lets say villian is a bad player, the blinds are big, say 2500/5000 with a 500 ante, full table of 9 players. Villain is on the button with say 7500 chips. He open shoves.

Should we assume villain is shoving an adjusted 9BB range here, or a 15BB range?

I suspect he is shoving just a little wider than normal, but we can't expect villians to shove super wide in this spot to adjust for the ante right?
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

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He's mashing buttons, depends on villains. Most bad villains tend to 3x rather than shove with 15bb regardless of antes in my experience tho.
 
bonflizubi

bonflizubi

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he is shoving a good hand here. pairs, AQ+. sometimes KQ.

I'd think 66-99 more likely than QQ+

bad players don't shove 15bb without something decent but vulnerable.
 
absoluthamm

absoluthamm

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Am I reading this wrong or what, villain is shoving 1.5BB's. Depending on the situation and villain(obv), this could be any face card with a rag if it was just folded around to him as the antes will take almost half his stack before the blinds even reach him again
 
Bwammo

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I believe wiz just made a typo and left off a zero.

Honestly we should never assume a bad player has any understanding of blinds and how they affect his stack. We need to know what type of terrible he is before we make a read in this situation. Are they aggressively bad? Top tight bad? Afraid to see flops bad? Each type of bad results in a different read here.
 
bonflizubi

bonflizubi

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I believe wiz just made a typo and left off a zero.

Honestly we should never assume a bad player has any understanding of blinds and how they affect his stack. We need to know what type of terrible he is before we make a read in this situation. Are they aggressively bad? Top tight bad? Afraid to see flops bad? Each type of bad results in a different read here.

good point. The other thing is what the buyin is. a "terrible" player in a $55 is > a "terrible" player in a $5 all things equal. They will make much different types of erriors.

Will make a dif it is MTT or SNG also. I assumed in my response prior it was a low buyin MTT

In low buyins bad players regardless of type tend not to know to open shove 15bb and only do it with monsters or good hands that they are afraid to play post with IMO. A laggy awful player might widen that range a bit but unless you know otherwise, I really think it's a quite polarized range unless they are actually just below average as opposed to terrible.
 
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WiZZiM

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Oops, yeah it's 75000:)

Sorry guys, it was like 3.30 AM when i posted this, pretty poorly constructed post.

Pretty much got what i was looking for, we shouldn't really assume these players know how to adjust for the antes, unless they prove otherwise.

And as mentioned, they probably will not just shove all in here, they will raise, which is kind of a give away that they do not know how shallow their stacks truly are.
 
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