Bad Play...or Not

I was just busted out of a NL HoldEm tourney today that throughly confused me regarding why my opposition made the play he did. I welcome thoughts about the play of this hand.
We had just reach the 200/400 level with no antes. Player in the BB had $33K in chips and I was on the button with $10,437 in chips. It was folded around to me and I was holding pocket 10's. I raised to $1,000. SB folded and BB called. The flop came 3s/2d/9c. He bet $2,500. I pushed all in with my remaining $9,437 and he snap called. His shown hand was Q-7 suited. He hit a Qh on the turn and it was all over. He then typed in the chat window that he was getting 5.5-1! At what point pre, or on the flop would he figure those odds?! The way I figure it, he was a 15 to 1 dog. His flop bet was a try for a steal, but I saw no reason he would call my all in after that. What could he possibly put me on that he thought he would be good there?
If I were to profile myself, I would say I'm a solid, aggressive player and that's all he had seen from me during this tournament.

Any thoughts out there? All thoughts/analysis appreciated.

I'd say it's a combination of what was flopped and the size of his stack compared to yours.

The flop was weak, so even if he didn't pair up with anything, he could guess that unless you had pocket pairs, your hand was weak as well. With a Q, he knew he could get something on turn or river and overcome any pair matched on the flop.

From there, I'd say the size of his stack drove him. He had 33k, and you had 10k. You going all-in on a 2.5k bet could be seen as trying to "buy the pot" to someone with a much larger stack. Furthermore, him losing a 1/3 of his stack would damage him, but not cripple him, so he may have been comfortable with the risk.

The mind of a fish is fascinating, I will write a little something on "The Mind of a Poker Fish" in the near future.
As for the question at hand, a fish will defend with almost, if not any 2 cards and will call for up to 3/4 of their stack when holding at least one over card.
Sounds like a micro tourney, if so, get use to those types of calls and stop wrapping your head around as to why they would make such a stupid move because it will happen frequently in the micros.

he doesnt make that call without stack size. good play from you... meh from him imo

HotShotX said:

I'd say it's a combination of what was flopped and the size of his stack compared to yours.

The flop was weak, so even if he didn't pair up with anything, he could guess that unless you had pocket pairs, your hand was weak as well. With a Q, he knew he could get something on turn or river and overcome any pair matched on the flop.

From there, I'd say the size of his stack drove him. He had 33k, and you had 10k. You going all-in on a 2.5k bet could be seen as trying to "buy the pot" to someone with a much larger stack. Furthermore, him losing a 1/3 of his stack would damage him, but not cripple him, so he may have been comfortable with the risk.

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Sounds like this ^ guy was the villain in hand with you, LoL.
Only thing interesting about their post > gives me an idea of how nonsensical their thought process is (aka ridiculous)

Kaymoar said:

he doesnt make that call without stack size. good play from you... meh from him imo

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meh from him?
Here's my tip of the day: It's not merely 'meh' from him... it's f'n ridiculously terrible. Donking the flop prob. bad enough (depending upon history) but donking flop with intentions of calling a RRAI is just about the worst (& stupidest thing possible). How can you rate that as bein' 'meh'? When it's out & out SHYT!!
If villain wanted to be an aggro spazz... he'd be far better off to CRAI on flop.. where he'll at least have fold equity & put HERO to a decision for stacks... instead of donking out POT.. & calling off a LARGE rrai.. with f'n Qhi. lolz

(sidenote: he's getting 2to1 postflop, lol @ 5to1)

Poker Orifice said:

Sounds like this ^ guy was the villain in hand with you, LoL.
Only thing interesting about their post > gives me an idea of how nonsensical their thought process is (aka ridiculous)

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You're not the first person who's called me nonsensical when I reply with something like this.

Honestly, it seems completely logical to me. His opponent's stack size made going big a low risk venture for him. The weak flop made it possible for his hole cards to win.

HotShotX said:

You're not the first person who's called me nonsensical when I reply with something like this.

Honestly, it seems completely logical to me. His opponent's stack size made going big a low risk venture for him. The weak flop made it possible for his hole cards to win.

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Isn't that something you should be thinking about, then ?

Sorry to say but there is no logic to villains play whatsoever and reagarding "risk"...well that's pretty flawed imo - there are ranges and there are probabilities and vs those two villain really sucked.

No one in the right mind would take this line (as already said).

Villains call pre was terrible, donkbetting with air (and tbh thin air) was really bad and calling the RRAI was hilarious, period.

Stack size doesn't matter much here.... villain is ready to squander 1/3 of his stack with total junk and would have instantly made it to my buddy list.

It should be pretty obvious but I'll throw in some numbers here:

Given villain had observed hero before (which I doubt) and seen him as tight but given him a wide stealing range on the button... with what part of that range would hero be continuing like this ?

Assuming hero would be raising 75% of his holdings pre here villain is 40:60 vs. hero's range on the flop.

Board: 3s 2d 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.851% 59.85% 01.01% 489977 8230.50 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 83s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 75o+, 65o }
Hand 1: 39.149% 38.14% 01.01% 312292 8230.50 { Qs7s }


If we assume that villain RRAI the flop with the better half of his range (the part that hit or has a remote chance to still hit or improve which is probably closer to the truth) things look really bad for villain though.

Board: 3s 2d 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 72.544% 72.53% 00.02% 287925 67.50 { 22+, ATs+, A5s-A2s, KQs, K9s, K3s-K2s, Q9s, Q3s-Q2s, J9s+, J3s-J2s, T8s+, T3s-T2s, 92s+, 83s, 76s, 73s, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, ATo+, A5o-A2o, KQo, K9o, K3o-K2o, Q9o, Q3o-Q2o, J8o+, T8o+, 97o+ }
Hand 1: 27.456% 27.44% 00.02% 108930 67.50 { Qs7s }


Ducy now ?

Defiant777 said:

I was just busted out of a NL HoldEm tourney today that throughly confused me regarding why my opposition made the play he did. I welcome thoughts about the play of this hand.
We had just reach the 200/400 level with no antes. Player in the BB had $33K in chips and I was on the button with $10,437 in chips. It was folded around to me and I was holding pocket 10's. I raised to $1,000. SB folded and BB called. The flop came 3s/2d/9c. He bet $2,500. I pushed all in with my remaining $9,437 and he snap called. His shown hand was Q-7 suited. He hit a Qh on the turn and it was all over. He then typed in the chat window that he was getting 5.5-1! At what point pre, or on the flop would he figure those odds?! The way I figure it, he was a 15 to 1 dog. His flop bet was a try for a steal, but I saw no reason he would call my all in after that. What could he possibly put me on that he thought he would be good there?
If I were to profile myself, I would say I'm a solid, aggressive player and that's all he had seen from me during this tournament.

Any thoughts out there? All thoughts/analysis appreciated.

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Yeah, i have a thought for you.. follow that villain around, sit to his left, and take his bank roll. I would be more than happy to lose a big pot like this if it allowed me to find a bum to hunt down and bust.
The other thought here is that your opponent made a F'N CRAZY LOL REDICULOUS play and there's nothing about stack sizes or reads or anything else that could make his call with Q high correct. Just SUPER BAD. You don't find players like this too much anymore even at micros. That guy could supply an entire 9 player table with a solid hourly.
You got it in with opponent drawing to essentially 3 cards. Using basic rule of outs times two plus one per card coming your opponent has around 13% when it went in. Obviously your gonna be frustrated when fish calls here and wins.. but God love him for trying.
Why can't I ever find players like that? Was this for real money or play money?

HotShotX said:

I'd say it's a combination of what was flopped and the size of his stack compared to yours.

The flop was weak, so even if he didn't pair up with anything, he could guess that unless you had pocket pairs, your hand was weak as well. With a Q, he knew he could get something on turn or river and overcome any pair matched on the flop.

From there, I'd say the size of his stack drove him. He had 33k, and you had 10k. You going all-in on a 2.5k bet could be seen as trying to "buy the pot" to someone with a much larger stack. Furthermore, him losing a 1/3 of his stack would damage him, but not cripple him, so he may have been comfortable with the risk.

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Is there a ton of leveling jokes and over the top sarcasm on this site? I don't like that stuff at all, one reason i stopped posting at my old home forum. Or is this a seirous responce?
Anyone?

Thanks for all your feedback guys/gals. I agree that in villians mind he was willing to risk 1/3 of his stack on the come, but I believe his thinking was flawed in doing so. Risking a 1/3 with positive EV makes sense...risking a 1/3 with a hand that stands up "possibly" only if he hits a 3 outer doesn't compute to me. We had been sitting at the same table for about an hour and even in late position he had only seen me with the goods. He had no reason to believe that my range would suggest he had a decent holding. However, as was posted, the mind of a fish...well...glad to read I'm not the only one that believed it was a ridiculous move.
Regarding the one post question about whether it was a micro tourney...it was actually the $109. $110K Guaranteed Pro Elite Bounty at Lock Poker yesterday. I didn't have a bounty on me, so I wasn't everyone's target

Thanks again everyone!

Navonod said:

Is there a ton of leveling jokes and over the top sarcasm on this site? I don't like that stuff at all, one reason i stopped posting at my old home forum. Or is this a seirous responce?
Anyone?

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I havent been here long but I've already worked out to ignore that persons posts, he doesnt have a clue how to play....

Nooneinparticular said:

I havent been here long but I've already worked out to ignore that persons posts, he doesnt have a clue how to play....

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In other words - yeah - he's serious.

HotShotX said:

You're not the first person who's called me nonsensical when I reply with something like this.

Honestly, it seems completely logical to me. His opponent's stack size made going big a low risk venture for him. The weak flop made it possible for his hole cards to win.

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So because villain had a big stack, it was low risk for him to get his chips in (call them off) ridiculously bad????? huh

Villian just made a "lol donkaments" play.

Nothing more to say other than you played it just like most players would have.

Is he a donk

Everyone will tell you the guy is a fish, you state that you were at the table with him/her for an hour, (how did he accumulate his chip stack??) you state that he only seen you with the goods, (probably explains the bet into you after the flop, he put you on ak or two other high cards and tried to take you off the hand) he seen you as a tight player making a move on the button, played out a hundred times would his play be profitable? NO,
tight players raising hands in your postition (ak aq a10 a9 a8 kq kj k10 qj q10) any of these 10 hands you would have folded to his post flop bet
now (aa kk qq jj tt 99 88) what you would go all in with, 10 hands you would fold, seven you would play so lets say 10 times he will win 2200 from the pot with this move, but seven times he is going to be behind with over 9000 at stake and his q is no good against aa kk qq even at this he wins 22000 but loses 27000 that is without the stats from 88 99 tt jj so is he a donk YES

From what I have read here it would seem that....a) his math sucks and b) he has horseshoes up his butt.

Riverdawg said:

From what I have read here it would seem that....a) his math sucks and b) he has horseshoes up his butt.

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No horseshoes, just happened to be one of the times he lucked out. Thats why everything needs to be looked at in the long run as either + or - EV......

This is a bad beat thread and nothing more.

Villain is terrible ... hotshot is terrible ... we move on.