Bad beat or misplay?

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Snakester420

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I busted out of an MTT pretty early, I had accumulated 4 starting stacks worth of chips so we were deep stacked. What did I do wrong if I played it wrong?

MTT was $3 buyin. I barely had villain covered.

Hero: KK

Hero opens from early position. Villain smooth calls in position. Heads up. Flop:

495 rainbow

I raise small to induce a raise, villain re raised and I re raised, he calls. We started with 11K in effective stacks and there was 4.5K in the pot now. Turn is a blank, we get it in, he has a set of 4s.

Should I avoid getting in in here when we are 100 BB deep? I know a set is in his range but he was a loose player 32% VPIP. I do not run into many sets when I have AA KK since they are sooo rare on top of the rarity of me getting AA or KK. I feel like I played it right, but I am so bummed since I was in first place and then busted a few hands after this one when I was down to half a starting stack.

This was on ACR and I am starting to think it is rigged, or I'm just having a really sick downswing (lost $80 in last 2 days down to $90 in bankroll. Played like 10 SNGs and only cashed once in a $1.50 buyin, had terrible luck in the rest which were all $5 and $3 buyin. How should I build my bankroll back up so I can keep playing $3 buyin MTTs?)

Thanks for the help.
 
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kmart99

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Ask yourself, would your opponent have 3bet you preflop with JJ, QQ, or AA? If the answer is yes, then remove those hands from their range.

Would Villain have played 67 this aggressively? Maybe?

With a board that dry, even a flat call is scary because 67, 910, A9, 44,55,88,99,1010 pretty much covers their range.

67, 44, 55, 99, and 1010 are the most common hands to 3bet you on this flop.. Only 1010 feels good, maybe A9 3bets you here, but either way things don't look great. At this point you're really just praying that Villain is on a bluff, which is super unlikely on a dry board with a brick turn.

Generally QQ, KK, and AA are great at getting money preflop, but post flop your goal should be to win a small pot a la Dnegs. JMHO
 
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alexis8888

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It's another bad bad beat. Something like that happened to me on BCP.
Try cash. SNG not the best choice.
 
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Snakester420

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Thanks.

Ask yourself, would your opponent have 3bet you preflop with JJ, QQ, or AA? If the answer is yes, then remove those hands from their range.

Would Villain have played 67 this aggressively? Maybe?

With a board that dry, even a flat call is scary because 67, 910, A9, 44,55,88,99,1010 pretty much covers their range.

67, 44, 55, 99, and 1010 are the most common hands to 3bet you on this flop.. Only 1010 feels good, maybe A9 3bets you here, but either way things don't look great. At this point you're really just praying that Villain is on a bluff, which is super unlikely on a dry board with a brick turn.

Generally QQ, KK, and AA are great at getting money preflop, but post flop your goal should be to win a small pot a la Dnegs. JMHO

Yep that makes sense. I thought about it and he is hardly ever raising me with worse hands except draws pairs and worse pocket pairs. Thanks.
 
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TicketMan4u

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It's happened to me several times on both ACR and BCP. I'll win a little and get a good bankroll going then all of a sudden I'm losing every hand and every game I play. Even when I get real tight and play mostly just premium hands, I always seem to get outdrawn somehow.

Opponents betting action after the flop would have me worried but I've been bluffed off big pots before with lesser hands than what I was holding so I probably would have done the same. Hard to know if its a set or if Opponent is just putting everything on something like QQ or JJ.
 
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dejan85

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bad beat on my oppinion,thats happen....
 
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kmart99

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I think your best lines on this board are

Flop, Turn, River

1)bet, check call, check call. I like this line because most of your range misses this flop so when you check the turn so many junk hands that floated you will bet twice as a steal and you can fold to a river all in on scare cards if the board gets super wet for villain's range.
 
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chronical

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well 3 points:
1. bat beats and coolers will happen
2. how strong was PRF raise? maybe you opened to small. Ussuali people play small pockets buy calling PRF hoping for a set (what happende here)
3. post flop ussualy in low buyins/frorrolls 3bet/4bet on flop/turn/river (ESPECIALLY if 2 players are in the pot) could indicate a hidden monster like a set of 4s
 
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NKGB13

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Ask yourself, would your opponent have 3bet you preflop with JJ, QQ, or AA? If the answer is yes, then remove those hands from their range.

Would Villain have played 67 this aggressively? Maybe?

With a board that dry, even a flat call is scary because 67, 910, A9, 44,55,88,99,1010 pretty much covers their range.

67, 44, 55, 99, and 1010 are the most common hands to 3bet you on this flop.. Only 1010 feels good, maybe A9 3bets you here, but either way things don't look great. At this point you're really just praying that Villain is on a bluff, which is super unlikely on a dry board with a brick turn.

Generally QQ, KK, and AA are great at getting money preflop, but post flop your goal should be to win a small pot a la Dnegs. JMHO

Seeing your comment here I see that I really need to study more about ranges. Simply because I would never think about if he would re-raise me with JJ or better. If you start thinking about that, you see the great possibility of him playing PPs or suited connectors on that pre-flop call.

Do anyone knows any book, or post where I can learn more about ranges?

Thanks!
 
trippin

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KK on that board, I would slow play. Try to get a bet out of that trash board.
 
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Mauno

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so big raise with only pair .. it's risky. your opponent risked also but had more luck this time.
 
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AshTheGreat

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I think your opponent played really well. As for bad beat or misplay? A little of column A, a little of column B. You were unlucky, but there's a small chance to get away from even KK here.

The flop 3 bet from you gave him the info that you had the type of hand you did. If he was on a bluff, it would be extremely rare for him to call your reraise. He'd just fold immediately as the message your reraise sends is "I'm never folding". The fact that he called meant he wanted to get it all in but didn't want to scare away hands like pocket 10s or AQ so he gave you time to get comfortable with your hand by letting a turn card come off.

You said your opponent was known for bluffing. Be VERY cautious when somebody known for bluffing just calls a reraise post flop on a dry board. It generally means they actually have something very strong and don't want to scare you away for once. As crazy as it sounds on the surface, if you think about it from their point of view, a bluffer will almost never flat call a 3 bet to bluff later and you should consider check-calling or check-folding, even with a hand like Kings. They're aware your 3 bet means you're never folding, and if they bet later anyway, they either don't know when to stop or are EXTREMELY strong.
If you've seen them demonstrate that they know when to fold in the past, then this is a painful check-fold spot after they flat your flop 3-bet on a dry board. Their range pre becomes very pair heavy when they're interested in a dry board this much, which makes their holdings very set heavy or even AA. I believe their 10s-KK range would worry about being outdrawn by your theoretical Ace highs and reraise, 4 betting you all in on the flop, which you could comfortably call.

It's a very rare spot to be in. I don't hate your line at all, betting out on the flop because the c bet is often interpreted as a bluff by aggressive bluffers anyway and they'd raise you the same way they would bet into you if you checked. I think your play was perfect, and you get max value from bluff raises by repping a missed A high continuation bet, it's just very hard to humble yourself to somebody with a loose image having a killer hand. But the action clearly dictated that when they were comfortable flatting two raises. People who bluff tend to think ahead and plan more often than average players. If they still have a plan for winning AFTER you 3 bet them on a dry flop that involves just calling, you're probably already drawing dead to a set of kings.

Their mindset would go something like this:

When you bet: Let me raise, I'd raise if I were bluffing so he might call hoping for an ace, or even reraise me.

When they raise, and you reraise: Wow, I hope he has a hand. He put in a lot of his stack. He might have AK and be angry though. I don't know if he'll call my all in with just AK. There's no obvious draw and I want more money. I'll just call and wait for him to attack my image, or I'll bet when an Ace comes out.


It's a VERY difficult thing to see in real time, and slightly counter-intuitive on the surface, but if an aggro bluffer isn't trying to put your overpair all in when you 3 bet a dry flop, you're probably losing. If they're 4 betting all in, it's an easy call. I hope my explanation wasn't too abstract.
 
mbrenneman0

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This is fancy play syndrome. Why try to Induce a raise. What hands is he going to be reraising you with here?

And yes you should avoid getting it in on the turn. When you're deep stacked going against another deepstack you should avoid letting the pots get too inflated. Think about it. If youre villain. What hands are you going to call all in with? He's never going all in with just top pair. He's almost always going all in with top 2 pair or better if hes a half decent player. You got blinded by pretty cards and tried to play it fancy.


I like the line suggested early of bet flop a normal size (1/2 to 2/3 pot) then check call, check call. It keeps the pot smaller and it keeps a wider part of his range in.
 
Jim Brown

Jim Brown

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100BB on a bone-dry flop is too much for this overpair.
 
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Snakester420

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Thanks for the tips everyone. This will help me to improve my MTT game and avoid costly mistakes later on.
 
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AsusTeam

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So it is important to understand that bad beats are fleeting and do
part of the game. Do not take preciptadas decisions, such as: change your strategy
usual tournament, completely change their style of play, and enter
try new moves in your arsenal. All this will not work if you
not 100%. Leave to change your game when you return to your state
normal.
 
papi1207

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this is classic bad beat, but you should keep pot low and awoid loosing too much od your stack with just one pair
 
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Dan Lucas

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Don't try to overthink this hand. Your opponent could have made the same moves with A 7, or pocket 9's to Q's. You cant always guess correctly. I actually folded pocket AA post flop on a Q 9 4 flop. Pre-flop I had raised 3.5x in position and got 2 callers. First bettor made big bet on flop, and I was sure he had QQ. 2nd guy called and it went to the river. Turn and river were bricks, they rolled over AQ and K 9. So don't get hung up on this hand. Unless you can be positive with how your opponent thinks, all you can do is try to read the situation and survive as long as you can. I heard the pro's once comment that they would rather make a bad laydown than a bad call.
 
antonis32123

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Preflop I would do the same , I would bet 4xBB(I don' know if you bet 3x or 4x) and then 4bet to his 3 bet .Postflop I 'd bet 1/2 of the pot and if I was raised I would just call . From that point , either I was raised or call ,only check call and I would have to make my mind as far as it concerns whether I would go to the end and risk all of my chips , because he's a loose player , or leave it .It's a tough decision.
 
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