Bad beat or bad play?

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wannabepro

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Hi all,

I played this hand last night (see attachment) and was knocked out of a live £35 buy in £5000 guarantee tournament and was wondering if I could have done anything different. I’m guessing I shouldn’t have shoved pre flop but I don’t think it would have ended differently if I had just raised or called pre flop raise.

Blinds: 2000/4000 6max

Average stack 185,000
Hero: KK (approx 200k stack)
UTG:TT (approx 300k stack)
UTG+1:AA (approx 130k stack)

UTG: raise 10,000
UTG+1: re raise to 25,000
Hero: shoved 200,000ish all in because I knew UTG+1 loved his hand and based on previous aggressiveness I was 99% sure he’d call and I was only losing to aces. UTG was also raising anything so expected him to fold like in previous hands.
UTG: thinks for a while and then says ‘I’m all in (more chips than me and UTG+1), I know I’m behind but I want to go out and get drunk!’ Hate reckless play like this when I’ve worked so hard and played so well all night. I just know he’s going to get lucky.

3 players all in, I flop a set of kings which was awesome! However, the flop contained three hearts and UTG had one ten heart. Turn 8 clubs, river Queen hearts so I lose to the player that didn’t even want to be there with the weakest pre flop hand by far.

I wouldn’t normally shove pre flop with so many chips but with all the action and previous play I was confident of a call with worse and even though I ran into aces, I beat them but lost to the hand that shouldn’t have been in the pot after calling a 4bet all in from a player who was playing quite tight (me). I know that beating the aces was pure luck so my shove was probably reckless, but I wanted UTG to fold and be heads up.

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate your thoughts.
 

Attachments

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Veritas

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so you see a UTG 2.5 open
a UTG+1 3bet to 6bb
and shove 50bb?
I would just go for a 4bet to ~15-20bb to get rid of TT.
your shove Looks like AK and therefor he called. with a large 4bet you should get him to fold and win a massive pot vs AA.
 
fickleberry

fickleberry

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I agree with Veritas. You massively overplayed your KK. 4Bet to 15BB, then fold when there is a jam + call (we don’t do so well vs these 2 ranges), call when UTG folds, but UTG+1 jams (smells like AK, AQs, JJ+), maybe fold when UTG jams and UTG+1 folds (super strong KK+, AK).
 
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myszek89

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Hi

In my opinion UTG made the mistake that he checked all-in. Two players re-raise him, which clearly shows that his hand was behind anothers before the flop. UTG if playing one-on-one had only a 50% chance of winning if his opponent had no higher pair and only had two higher cards (eg AK). UTG, playing against two players, he might have thought he was far behind. UTG was lucky.
UTG + 1 was the biggest loser.
 
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wannabepro

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I agree with you all. Unfortunately, the guy with tens was adamant that he wanted to go out and drink with his mate so I don’t think he would’ve folded either way. But I agree that 4betting is definitely the best option and most people in UTG gun’s position would fold leaving me with a big pot when I hit my king. I was absolutely gutted because I’ve had so many bad beats recently. I’ve invested a lot of time playing and studying this year and have seen results improve, but unfortunately I’ve also seen bad beats increase drastically. I do need to stop overplaying certain hands though.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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+1 more for the cold 4bet with KK. Any good player worth their salt knows 10s are no good anymore and fold them easily - the other player probably shoves with his Aces or 5 bets and then you shove Kings - so either way the ultimate preflop cooler is set and you cant fold Kings here - then you get lucky, spike your K and the hand is yours.

So for me you just overplayed Kings and made a misstep preflop, that's all.
 
Katie Dozier

Katie Dozier

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I like your decision to just shove! The pot is around $40k at the time, and your stack is under 6 times that (which is a good general guideline for when we can comfortably shove versus making a smaller four bet). I especially prefer shoving here because of your read—you said you knew that UTG +1 loved his hand and wanted to get it in. You held the second best starting hand in all of hold’em so should be trying your best to get it all in here! I also prefer shoving because it is one of those spots where your hand actually appears weaker to your opponents because you shove instead of four betting, making this even better.

I agree with your reasoning, and am sorry you took that bad beat! Keep in mind that, despite the actual result on this specific runout, we want the pocket tens to call-we are an 80% favorite over pocket tens and losing this particular hand doesn’t change that fact. I think you played it aggressively and awesome, way to go! [emoji4]
 
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wannabepro

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I like your decision to just shove! The pot is around $40k at the time, and your stack is under 6 times that (which is a good general guideline for when we can comfortably shove versus making a smaller four bet). I especially prefer shoving here because of your read—you said you knew that UTG +1 loved his hand and wanted to get it in. You held the second best starting hand in all of hold’em so should be trying your best to get it all in here! I also prefer shoving because it is one of those spots where your hand actually appears weaker to your opponents because you shove instead of four betting, making this even better.

I agree with your reasoning, and am sorry you took that bad beat! Keep in mind that, despite the actual result on this specific runout, we want the pocket tens to call-we are an 80% favorite over pocket tens and losing this particular hand doesn’t change that fact. I think you played it aggressively and awesome, way to go! [emoji4]

Thanks for this, I feel much better about it now! Tricky situation but UTG was so loose raising everything and I wanted to be all in heads up even though I knew I could be against aces. And good point about being an 80% favourite - I know long term I’m winning but it just feels crap taking another beat. The last tournament I was in I flopped top two pair AT and villain went all in on the flop as he flopped a set of 2s. I was knocked out. Another recent tournament I flopped a full house and the other guy flopped quads. The list goes on... maybe my luck will change soon. I’m happy with my improved play overall so it’s a matter of time...
 
Katie Dozier

Katie Dozier

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Thanks for this, I feel much better about it now! Tricky situation but UTG was so loose raising everything and I wanted to be all in heads up even though I knew I could be against aces. And good point about being an 80% favourite - I know long term I’m winning but it just feels crap taking another beat. The last tournament I was in I flopped top two pair AT and villain went all in on the flop as he flopped a set of 2s. I was knocked out. Another recent tournament I flopped a full house and the other guy flopped quads. The list goes on... maybe my luck will change soon. I’m happy with my improved play overall so it’s a matter of time...


Keep getting it in with the best of it, keep your eye on the long term (hundreds/thousands of tournaments) and your luck will indeed change! :) Here’s hoping you start running well soon, Glglgl!
 
B

bigpappa325

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either way after flop you where all in regardless. If tens don't run from all in they are not running from 4 bet. that's poker. Everybody has good hindsight. None would of left pre flop with kings. Maybe if you frowned on three hearts but i wouldn't imagine they went all in on a flush draw.

you did what 99% would of done pre and post flop. Just wasnt your lucky day

Remember most of the yahoos on here have never won a huge tourney. We are all wanta bees :secruity:
 
777jeton777

777jeton777

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once again I’m convinced that Alin is one of the worst decisions in poker ...:2in1:
 
777jeton777

777jeton777

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In high stakes poker your right in low stakes you will never finish if your a post flop player.
There are many situations when you need to use Alin. but basically it's still not the best solution. this is my belief. everyone plays differently and this is a game. someone goes to Alin just to steal the BB MB.
 
777jeton777

777jeton777

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I would advise Alin only when he is needed. good luck.
 
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DoIHaveAFlush

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Likes (Received): 17



New bad beat recently happened at 888poker..

Villain bets 3BB preflop, I had AJs and re-raise to 6BB.

Flop Comes 7A9. I bet half pot, Villain calls.
Turn is a J, I bet pot, Villain calls.
River is a 6, Villain bets half pot, I re-raise all-in, he calls.

Villain had 58s and wins with a straight over my two pair (AJ).
At the moment I feel pretty pissed and tilted, as I feel the way he played was super fishy. Looking Forward to your comments.


Next bad beat on 888poker:

I'm on the BB, Action folds to SB, SB 4BB raises with K7o. I call with J9s (had a read the villain is a donk). Preflop Comes J77. I raise half pot, Villain re-raises to all-in (small stack) - I call believing this guy can NEVER have a 7 when raising preflop 4BB. In the end, guy had trips and won my stack.

Looking Forward to your Feedback...
 
NCDaddy

NCDaddy

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Eh....I mean...hindisght is always 20/20 but in reality...you weren't getting away from that hand even if you flatted preflop, right? You're getting it in with the set. And your'e going to lose it either way. Just one of those hands.
 
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caracaski220

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caracaski220

I really think you did the right play. If you think you have the best hand , which you did,
you want to get all the chips in, make a huge win and be on your way to the final table and even winnig.Winning the tournament is your goal. To do that you must have the most chips.
If you play a hand correctly or well you cannot regret loossing to some suckout, which happens to all of us. In the long run you will win against htese donks.
 
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mara2259

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Well, where are you, the snow-white strip?

Over the past week, flew out of the tournament with all kinds of pocket pairs ranging from a dozen to aces. And with aces this happened three times. I must say that I am not a supporter of the all-in strategy, and such a development was not on my initiative. Perhaps with aces it was necessary to act more decisively. I would just take the blinds, but stayed in the tournament. With the ladies the curious thing came out. He got a set on the flop and broke away to the fullest, but the villain didn’t sit, disciplinedly calling my huge bets, he waited on the river of his ten and built a straight from the ace. These are the pies with kittens. I think that I did the right thing and at a distance it should be profitable, but to be honest, I’m already tired of waiting.:captain:
 
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emzadii

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Question: Can anybody educate me on whether it's wise to 4bet-fold 1/3 of your medium-ish stack in this specific situation? Does the losing-the-minimum philosophy apply?
 
madbeeet

madbeeet

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Personally, I would like to push or fold in this situation.
 
Vallet

Vallet

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You played aggressively, but there was no other choice. It doesn't matter what size of raise you would make. Opponents would still call if they were ready to go all in even preflop.
 
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