Another "How would you play this" hand analysis

Local $35 NL MTT. 1 re-entry allowed. 32 people in. Very first hand.
Everyone is known and have played together frequently. Hero has a TAG image but capable of playing a variety of hands. Villain 1 has an image of a LAG player but Hero knows he's a bit more TAG than he lets on. Villain 2 is also TAG. Starting stack is 20k, blinds up every 20 minutes starting at 25/50.

Hero is MP with Kh Qh. Villain 2 on the right limps. Hero raises to 150. Villain 1 on hero's immediate left re-raises to 300. Villain 2 calls. Hero elects to call. 975 in the pot.

Flop: 10h Jh 8d. Villain 2 checks. Hero bets pot. Villian 1 raises to 3k. Villian 2 calls. Next move?

hero needs to check and call the flop

as played, since we have 1 re-entry i'd probably just call and see the turn, but we're now paying 3k to see a turn, rather than maybe maximum 1k if we check. we could also just re-raise and get it in, only because we can just re-load if we miss.

but i think we overplayed it by betting out into a guy who 3bet pre flop and has a tight image, let him bet out, get to a cheap turn and go from there.

This is an easy shove. You flopped an open ended straight flush draw. You are probably a huge favorite against either hand unless one of your opponents has Aces with the Ace of hearts (which you are a slight dog) and if one of your opponents has like Ah9h you're actually a pretty big dog. However, from the action played I would just ship it in. If you get called, you're probably in not too bad of shape, and if they both fold you add +6675 to your stack.

Really dislike your donk pot lead here..

As played you have to call now but because it's a re entry given how much of a great flop this is for us I'm just happy to raise and get it in now.

I want villain 2 to stay here thats why Ill just call here. He might be startled if I reraise.
Tripling is better than doubling.

Stryder said:

This is an easy shove. You flopped an open ended straight flush draw. You are probably a huge favorite against either hand unless one of your opponents has Aces with the Ace of hearts (which you are a slight dog) and if one of your opponents has like Ah9h you're actually a pretty big dog. However, from the action played I would just ship it in. If you get called, you're probably in not too bad of shape, and if they both fold you add +6675 to your stack.

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he's not folding, this is a live game

In flop better check/raise then donk bet in this board.... In your situation this fold, odds not very good what play now vs 2 oppoents , better wait more beter hand,,,

ramdeebam said:

Really dislike your donk pot lead here..

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So, you'd check here?!!? I would think at the very least a semi bluff would be in order.....1/2 pot?

I think I will fold. That is not the freeroll. So It is better to be careful.

Hero should call, as at least one of these players has a good hand
-If you hit your Straight Flush/Straight/Flush/ you want to get maximum value
-If only one player is in and is not a calling station being the first to shove could also be acceptable (And you'll look awesome if you make him fold )

tough call its the only thing here that is clear,

i dont know what it should be the right move from here, but perhaps i will shove my odds are good

on heros side:

9 cards give the flush with high king

8 cards for the straight

so heros cards: 9+8-2=15 cards out of 47 and 2 chances to hit and in a pot multiply by 3,

and actually the odds could be higher if one of the villain has queens and the other one folds then hero has three more cards so 18 out 47 so around 80% chances to win

i think the odds say hero has to shove, but thats my humble opinion

NCDaddy said:

So, you'd check here?!!? I would think at the very least a semi bluff would be in order.....1/2 pot?

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Check raise is far superior than just donk betting. We should rarely be donk leading when someone re raises pre flop especially when we smash the flop like we do.

Unless your play is exactly to just raise and get it in on the flop, why are we donk betting to start with without a plan given how great this flop is for us?

Does villain 1 usually 3 bet light in the early stages of past tournaments? If not I would fold pre to avoid domination.

If I decided to call I would check raise this flop and be looking to shove over a 3 bet.

With the line you decided to take, I would shove, no point in really flatting when you can add fold equity and rebuy if you miss. Flipping early in tournaments is not really the best strategy but you kind of set yourself up in a bad spot.

If I was only up against 1 other player I'd have no problem check raising here. The problem is I am in-between 2 players, 1 of which has just come along for the ride by limp calling 2 raises pre-flop and check calling a bet / raise post flop.

And to answer your first question iPlay - he does on occasion

Well...anyway..I shoved. Villain 1 folded Aces. Villain 2 mucked while Villain 1 was in the tank for about 2 minutes.

I think the way you played you pretty much had to shove. I dont hate the play but definitely would have preferred check raise on the flop. I still think the way you played it is ok.

As played, ship- you need to guarantee seeing 2 more cards. You'll be getting the wrong price to draw on the turn if you miss, and if you get there on the turn it will kill your action, thereby your implied odds aren't there.

Ideally, though, I'd say check raise all in. I don't love big bet poker, but the exception is when I'm equally happy if they fold or they call; then it's a good situation for a shove. The reason I prefer a check raise is you don't mind a free card, and you don't mind a bet (as you can apply the pressure and get max fold equity combined with massive hand equity)

The reason I don't like the donk bet is it puts you in the passenger seat, you lose the ability to be super aggressive with your monster draw, which is, IMO the greatest strength of monster draws.

yeah the way the hands played out i'd definitely re-raise and get it all in

missjacki said:

Ideally, though, I'd say check raise all in..

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You'd be check-shoving 20k into a 1340-1800'ish' chip pot?
(check-shove 10x pot?)

I would probably shove but I play hands differently as my night goes on. Obviously you have to call, and a re-raise of anything petty will just be called. So its either call or shove.

Poker Orifice said:

You'd be check-shoving 20k into a 1340-1800'ish' chip pot?
(check-shove 10x pot?)

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that's a good point; I guess I was thinking the pot would get bigger by the time there was a Cbet and some callers...but still probably not big enough to shove.

nothing aggressive is terrible here, since we get to reload once anyways, but i think check/calling is the best play by far against presumably strong ranges that likely won't fold to action much.

i dont like your donk bet.now the best move in my opinion is to shove.i think its the best move because they have some folding equity you must take to increase your odds.its a situation that one of them might have a monster hand like AA.if he folds it ,its a very + EV situation for you to take the pot without a showdown.if he calls you its a coin flip that you were commited to play.

next time check raise tha flop..

JusSumguy said:

Daniel Negreanu - Small Ball - Keeping The Pot Small - YouTube

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that's a great video, and i love the small ball approach.

I'd like to comment, though, that Negreanu isn't against big pots, he's against big pots when you have a marginal hand. He wants to play small pots until he has a hand to go to war with.

I think the hand the OP posted is a hand to go to war with...but this may all just be a question of style. I like to play my medium hands and regular drawing hands small. I like to play my monster draws super aggressively to give cover to my made monsters (like sets and straights). That way when I check raise on a dangerous board people won't know if I'm protecting my top set, or if I'm semi bluffing my monster draw....either way they can't like their chances against my range and any time I can pick up a pot with just K high or even top set on a dangerous board, I am happy either way.

Some people wait around in tournaments for AA and premium starting hands...I wait around for flopping huge draws. Give me a straight flush draw instead of pocket aces any day of the week.