Always Short Stacked at Final Table MTT

TravelerLloyd · May 16, 2019

I am experiencing a problem, when I do make it to the final table, I am always short stacked and every play is an all in play and I never win, I have some 2nd like twice in 3 months but never a win.

I want to step my game up, but dont have the bankroll to come out of freerolls unless it's the .10 $50GTD and CardsChat gives you freerolls for $100, $200 and $250...so I feel like that would be going backwards.

I played in a $3 $1,000 buy in and they did not play liek the CardsChat freeroll or the $10 ACR freeroll, those boys were serious. There were 79 players and I finished 76, I had top two pair and villan had a set of 222, I felt so bad and blew half my bankroll on that, try to make a move like rounders tournament....

Any Suggestions?

gryphon3005 · May 16, 2019

You need a bit more aggression in your game if you want a healthy stack at the final table. When your mtt is down to 4 tables start looking for spots to raise and take advantage of your tight image. Depending on your stack size you may need to consider shoving, particularly when you are down to 2 or 3 tables. Avoid challenging the monster stacks and hit the players who are trying to preserve chips. At the later stages the blinds and antes are worth the risk.

Andrew Popov · May 16, 2019

I agree with this opinion. You probably lack aggression. Do not allow villains to watch the flop cheaply, play more often with short stacks and good cards (any ace or pocket pair).

QA77 · May 16, 2019

Play more aggressive during the middle part of the tournament before cashing. It seems like you tighten up before cashing and before making a final table. Try to keep your stack above 20bbs and if you get below that, be more aggressive.

terryk · May 16, 2019

There is nothing better than Experience,,,,you have to walk thru the fire to come out the other side.:idea: You'll get there Lloyd,,,stick with it!

Canwai · May 16, 2019

Wow, you're to be congratulated for it.
I get shortstack for pretty much the entire tournament and the most I can do is stay in the latest ITM positions.

abwil2 · May 17, 2019

TravelerLloyd said:
I am experiencing a problem, when I do make it to the final table, I am always short stacked and every play is an all in play and I never win, I have some 2nd like twice in 3 months but never a win.

I want to step my game up, but dont have the bankroll to come out of freerolls unless it's the .10 $50GTD and CardsChat gives you freerolls for $100, $200 and $250...so I feel like that would be going backwards.

I played in a $3 $1,000 buy in and they did not play liek the CardsChat freeroll or the $10 ACR freeroll, those boys were serious. There were 79 players and I finished 76, I had top two pair and villan had a set of 222, I felt so bad and blew half my bankroll on that, try to make a move like rounders tournament....

Any Suggestions?

If your making final tables i wouldnt worry bout being short stacked. if yolu get too aggressive you wont make final tables near as much. Yes u may make it there once in a while with HUGE stack but u wont make near as often. Now once there you might push a little more with iffy hands. But point is your making final table. Thats tough in and of itself. dont care if its a free roll or buyin

tomk7788 · May 17, 2019

Even the best players are sometimes short stacked when they reach the final table. Ever escalating blinds, bad beats, bad hand distributions and things like that deplete your stack.

TravelerLloyd · May 17, 2019

I will try that strategy next time, thanks!

QA77 said:
Play more aggressive during the middle part of the tournament before cashing. It seems like you tighten up before cashing and before making a final table. Try to keep your stack above 20bbs and if you get below that, be more aggressive.

kowrip · May 17, 2019

There is also another thing to keep in mind. In many tournaments, the rising blinds/antes cause most stacks to become short stacks. I just played in a tournament where close to the bubble the blinds/antes were 2K/1K/300, there were about 25 people left and there were about 1.1M chips in play. Do the math. That comes out to an average stack size of around 44K, which is only 22BB. So, you need to also see where you stand in relation to other stacks. If most of the stacks are similar to yours, then you might not need to make adjustments to your game. Now, if you are constantly the short stack among many mountains of chips, then yes you probably need to make some changes.

Alaercio da Rocha · May 17, 2019

I would not worry about getting into several FTs and not being able to get stuck because in that way I would always have a solid bench. As you said that arriving at final tables consider it good to only be more aggressive at the final table to try to get the 1.

chiefmax · May 18, 2019

What i do is whenever late registration ends i calculate what the average stack size will be on the final table. so if there is 90 people left and average stack is currently 15K, the average on the final table will be 150K. Once you have that 150k size in mind dont start playing too tight until you reach that stack. A mistake i used to make is i would play alot more conservative when i had a chip lead in the early stages because i would want to preserve that chip lead. You cant settle for any amount until you have enough to be well stacked on the final table.

greatgame230 · May 18, 2019

First I think it's an important achievement not only to be ITM but in the FT regardless of your stack, remember that the goal of any tournament regardless of your Buy-in is to be ITM, but I think the most common advice you have been given is the correct you must be a bit more aggressive in the middle stage of the tournament that way you will accumulate a better stack when you reach the final stage.

crimsonshroud88 · May 18, 2019

I'll just add that your aggression should generally be targeted at the same stack size (if you were a middle stack). Short stacks have less to lose and big stacks can take some risk.
Although finding a good spot, where a big stack has a range that is too wide, and can't properly defend it against your aggression, might give you plenty of chips.

roger perkins · May 18, 2019

abwil2 said:
If your making final tables i wouldnt worry bout being short stacked. if yolu get too aggressive you wont make final tables near as much. Yes u may make it there once in a while with HUGE stack but u wont make near as often. Now once there you might push a little more with iffy hands. But point is your making final table. Thats tough in and of itself. dont care if its a free roll or buyin

I think you are confusing loose with aggressive. Loose is playing iffy hands. Aggressive is playing good hands hard and playing position hard. When you have a good hand make marginal hands pay to see more cards. 90% of the time come in for a raise. If you do play marginal hands like suited connectors you play them with a get in cheap get out cheap mode and always play then from position. When you are in a hand take control of that hand, again make others pay to see more cards.

Secret Rival · Jun 2, 2019

roger perkins said:
I think you are confusing loose with aggressive. Loose is playing iffy hands. Aggressive is playing good hands hard and playing position hard. When you have a good hand make marginal hands pay to see more cards. 90% of the time come in for a raise. If you do play marginal hands like suited connectors you play them with a get in cheap get out cheap mode and always play then from position. When you are in a hand take control of that hand, again make others pay to see more cards.

Excellent post, thank you. The point you make are spot on with what I have learned
in my short time playing. Awesome.

gwj63 · Jun 2, 2019

if you're making the final table in any freeroll,
you're doing really well. I wouldn't be to concerned with stack size.
you're getting there which is an accomplishment in itself.

EVA777 · Jun 2, 2019

TravelerLloyd said:
I am experiencing a problem, when I do make it to the final table, I am always short stacked and every play is an all in play and I never win, I have some 2nd like twice in 3 months but never a win...

Any Suggestions?

This is already good! I took second place only 1 time for all the time!
I think you should have played aggressively before the final table, when you had the biggest stack against smaller stacks!

TravelerLloyd · Jun 3, 2019

I never had the bigger stack, I made it by hanging in either smallest stack or next to the smallest stack. When I get aggressive the cards always seem to go the villains way.

Tonight I was in a $500, got the nut straight, villain called with a 62s and hit the flush.

Another time I raise 5x BB and got called by 34s and dude hit the low straight on my two pairs on the river. Seems like when I raise they call looking to beat me with any two suited or connected cards. Busts me every time.

EVA777 said:
This is already good! I took second place only 1 time for all the time!
I think you should have played aggressively before the final table, when you had the biggest stack against smaller stacks!

dzemer · Jun 3, 2019

I have the same problem. In the middle of any tournaments many times im on top 10. But closer to the final table im starting losing a lot of my stack. Even if i survive to the final table i have the lowest stack and bb are killing me.

Alex70793 · Jun 3, 2019

It is normal to enter the final table with a short stack, by this time the blinds rise so much that everyone has short stacks, at the final table usually 1-2 players with large stacks and the rest of the players sit with small ones.

EVA777 · Jun 4, 2019

dzemer said:
I have the same problem. In the middle of any tournaments many times im on top 10. But closer to the final table im starting losing a lot of my stack. Even if i survive to the final table i have the lowest stack and bb are killing me.

And I thought that only I had such problems! Looks like we still don't know online poker well?:hmmmm2::damnmate:

EVA777 · Jun 6, 2019

TravelerLloyd said:
I never had the bigger stack, I made it by hanging in either smallest stack or next to the smallest stack. When I get aggressive the cards always seem to go the villains way.

Tonight I was in a $500, got the nut straight, villain called with a 62s and hit the flush.
Another time I raise 5x BB and got called by 34s and dude hit the low straight on my two pairs on the river. Seems like when I raise they call looking to beat me with any two suited or connected cards. Busts me every time.

How many times I flew out of the game with a good hand just because of the river!

cguru: :banghead: Is history repeating itself?

akmost · Jun 6, 2019

I choose to take risks-if I have to- in the middle phase of a large tournament because if we are ITM there are not many ICM considerations.By building a healthy stack things will become way easier for you. Making the FT with a massive stack will make you goal ''more'' doable.Applying pressure there is the number one reason of gathering chips!
Experience is the key factor for what I am saying , trying to work on it at the moment too, because fat money is in the top positions!!

TravelerLloyd · Jun 7, 2019

I don't know, but when them blinds are getting up there and you get under 10 BB, I think you have to go all in with a hand you like or you will do it with one you don't like.

akmost said:
I choose to take risks-if I have to- in the middle phase of a large tournament because if we are ITM there are not many ICM considerations.By building a healthy stack things will become way easier for you. Making the FT with a massive stack will make you goal ''more'' doable.Applying pressure there is the number one reason of gathering chips!
Experience is the key factor for what I am saying , trying to work on it at the moment too, because fat money is in the top positions!!

Always Short Stacked at Final Table MTT

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