AK Suited

Alucard

Alucard

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On a freeroll middlephase close to the bubble (only 2 tables reamaining top 10 gets paid),

a player on UTG+1 calls, everyone else folds, I'm on the small blind with AK clubs suited with chip lead about 50k:90k ratio as I remember, so I raise 4BBs. Then the big blind raises as well (pot commited). (around similar stack size with utg+1) And the UTG+1 goes all in. I fold. And the BB goes all in.

Thinking my odds weren't good I folded.

So the UTG+1 had a pair of 8s and the BB had AK offsuit.

UTG+1 won the pot with the pair, but there were 3 clubs on the board. 2 on the flop & 1 on the turn, so if I called, I would've won with the flush and would've gone to chip lead in the tournament.

Did I make the right move here? By folding & with my raises?

BTW I won the freeroll. It was a pretty small amount but my first freeroll win :D
 
Andrew Popov

Andrew Popov

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I think that you should not make decisions blindly, pre-flop, if their price is your entire stack and departure from the tournament. After all, the board might not have cards for the flush. This is a rare combination.
 
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leon_fush

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Well, with AK in the small blind, I would go all-in and not 4bb, although it would be scary but with such blinds it would be exposed and a small blind would be profitable, but as we would understand, I would lose ... so it seems There was an optimal solution to throw out cards, it would be interesting to know how this player behaved during the whole game.
 
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feecg

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AKs is the strongest drawing hand, so you really depend on the board to win the hand, that means that pre flop all ins are not the best situation, but if you know your opponent, his moves, his size bets accondingly to which hands, you can call here.
Anyway I wouldn't have folded it, i think it's worth the call anyways cause you could double up and be in a very favorable situation and premium hands don't appear frequently, let's say, 1 in 3 orbits, roughly, or even more.

As it was a freeroll I don't think it's surprising that the guy shoved an pocket 88, being this a very nice information to use against him later in the tournament.

Hope I helped, good luck
 
Acesinthebig

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I don't think you made the right decision. You have these stacks covered so there's no chance of busting. Top 3 premium starting hands don't come along often. You should be shoving here yourself.
 
TheNutz4You

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I know it sucks to have to call off most of your stack with AKs but I think in this spot is was a call. If they had AA or KK I don't think they would of shoved, but instead called the raise to hopefully keep each other in the pot and hope to get paid off on later streets. But in hind sight you played it safe and ended up binking the freeroll.

I ran into a similar situation during the last cards chat freeroll on betonline. we where down to 12 or 13 left (10 paid) and I got QQ in middle position . UTG+1 opens big and I called, the SB or BB can remember jams over the top and utg1reshoved as well, I tanked for a few seconds and decided to fold. turned out to e a good fold and I held onto my stack and ended up winning. So I don't hate the fold.
 
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sarniack

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I think it was correct decision. Assuming that they shove pairs, AJs+, AKo, you have about 30% equity. So even if you get good price, you have about 70% chance to loose most of your stack on the bubble. And you can use your chip lead much better on the bubble (by applying pressure).
 
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If you won the tourney, it means that you were very good. It wasn't the best decision when you think that you could take that hand, but if you won, it means that it was good decision in a long way. :)
 
Alucard

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The only reason I did not shove is because there were 2 other opponents on the board, Since the BB was pot committed, he would've definitely pushed all in.
So I would playing a showdown against 2 players preflop. Even if I had AAs I would've had a less chance against 2 players than against 1 player. I was doing well in the tournament in 4th biggest stack at that point with only a few players left for cash. So why should I risk more than a half of my stack for a risky call knowing that they are both in?
That would've risked my chance of at least finishing top 3 not to mention if somehow I lost the pot I would've had 1/4th of the winners stack on that table.

If it was in the earlier stages I would've shoved all in without any hesitation.
But at that point of the tournament against two players, I still think that was the right decision even though the flop turned nicely
 
TheNutz4You

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ICM is a consideration for sure. Like I said I don't hate the fold 1 bit. You know table dynamics and player stats a lot better than us, so I would go with what you felt was the right call at the time. You lived to fight another hand and it payed off for you.

Would you of shoved QQ or KK in this situation? Folding AKs in this position every time will get you exploited as you called a big open and then folded to a 3bet shove. So some maniac or super agro player could see this and 3bet you big a lot and push you off better hand close to the bubble or in this case the FT. But nothing wrong with taking the lower variance route here.
 
Alucard

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ICM is a consideration for sure. Like I said I don't hate the fold 1 bit. You know table dynamics and player stats a lot better than us, so I would go with what you felt was the right call at the time. You lived to fight another hand and it payed off for you.

Would you of shoved QQ or KK in this situation? Folding AKs in this position every time will get you exploited as you called a big open and then folded to a 3bet shove. So some maniac or super agro player could see this and 3bet you big a lot and push you off better hand close to the bubble or in this case the FT. But nothing wrong with taking the lower variance route here.


Yeah I understand that. Actually I was the more aggressive player on the table pushing other players for tough spots & never limping in to a pot. I thought it'd be wiser not to risk the stack here because there were 2 players. And they were playing tight.

I wouldn't have shoved even I had QQs against 2 players. KKs, AAs will depend on the situation.

Got a lot to learn. Thanks for the inputs!
 
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sarniack

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Would you of shoved QQ or KK in this situation? Folding AKs in this position every time will get you exploited as you called a big open and then folded to a 3bet shove. So some maniac or super agro player could see this and 3bet you big a lot and push you off better hand close to the bubble or in this case the FT. But nothing wrong with taking the lower variance route here.

I wouldn't have shoved even I had QQs against 2 players. KKs, AAs will depend on the situation.

KK and AA are totally different cases. Against 66+, AJs+, AQo+ the equities are:
- KK ~55%
- AA ~69%

For a tighter range it will be few % less for KK, but still it is close to coin flip. For AK, like I wrote it is only 30%, so on average you are losing most of your stack on the bubble 70% of the time (unless villains are crazy which is not the case here). And the bubble is a great spot to use your stack for the pressure, not for the gambling. It was a good fold imho.
 
Alucard

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KK and AA are totally different cases. Against 66+, AJs+, AQo+ the equities are:
- KK ~55%
- AA ~69%

For a tighter range it will be few % less for KK, but still it is close to coin flip. For AK, like I wrote it is only 30%, so on average you are losing most of your stack on the bubble 70% of the time (unless villains are crazy which is not the case here). And the bubble is a great spot to use your stack for the pressure, not for the gambling. It was a good fold imho.

how do you calculate the equity percentage? please explain
 
Kenzie 96

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I know it sucks to have to call off most of your stack with AKs but I think in this spot is was a call. If they had AA or KK I don't think they would of shoved, but instead called the raise to hopefully keep each other in the pot and hope to get paid off on later streets. But in hind sight you played it safe and ended up binking the freeroll.

I ran into a similar situation during the last cards chat freeroll on betonline. we where down to 12 or 13 left (10 paid) and I got QQ in middle position . UTG+1 opens big and I called, the SB or BB can remember jams over the top and utg1reshoved as well, I tanked for a few seconds and decided to fold. turned out to e a good fold and I held onto my stack and ended up winning. So I don't hate the fold.






I know you, as well as the OP are well aware of this, but for newer players, the actual outcome of the hand does not matter, decisions are made based on the information at hand & should not be second guessed based on outcome.
 
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mycashier

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I think some people would have called and some wouldn't. and no one know what the flop with unfold. we can all say damn I wish I didn't fold or damn I wish I didn't call. Also, the size of the blinds may have an effect on your decision.
 
TheNutz4You

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Yeah going off the equity you have versus the range you give the particular villian is the way to go i agree. But the worst case scenario you are dominated by AA, KK you have at min 3 outs, any other pocket pair or Ax hand you are flipping with or crushing Ax hands.

Maybe in this exact spot with a shoves ahead of you is a fine fold, but being a freeroll unless the ugt1 was trapping with AA or KK (which i doubt) when he shoves im giving him 66-QQ that wanted to see a cheap flop and the BB on a squeeze type hand of middling type PP or AJ+. I like my equity against that range and with pot odds.
 
theman2017

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AK

On a freeroll middlephase close to the bubble (only 2 tables reamaining top 10 gets paid),

a player on UTG+1 calls, everyone else folds, I'm on the small blind with AK clubs suited with chip lead about 50k:90k ratio as I remember, so I raise 4BBs. Then the big blind raises as well (pot commited). (around similar stack size with utg+1) And the UTG+1 goes all in. I fold. And the BB goes all in.

Thinking my odds weren't good I folded.

So the UTG+1 had a pair of 8s and the BB had AK offsuit.

UTG+1 won the pot with the pair, but there were 3 clubs on the board. 2 on the flop & 1 on the turn, so if I called, I would've won with the flush and would've gone to chip lead in the tournament.



Did I make the right move here? By folding & with my raises?

BTW I won the freeroll. It was a pretty small amount but my first freeroll win :D

AK is one of those hands you shove all in with either in desperation or only losing %20 of your stack I folded AK twice in the wsop here in Vancouver.

I went on to cash deep making $5000 it was a $1500 buy-in. the biggest tournament I played in. Yes, I made the right move both times.
 
theman2017

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AK

It is still one of those hands I am looking to master.
 
BriceNice

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Ive been the chip leader and bubbled in 11th place with AK before doesnt feel good. So now I use this conventional wisdom. If im 1 of 12, I fold AK to any resistance. If im 9 of 12 or lower Im riding AK all the way.
 
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Its all in most of the time pre flop unless close to the bubble. I was watching a 100K high roller event on Tv same hand AK suited shove pre flop vs AA and overkill 5 card flop
flush for AK.
 
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On a freeroll middlephase close to the bubble (only 2 tables reamaining top 10 gets paid),

a player on UTG+1 calls, everyone else folds, I'm on the small blind with AK clubs suited with chip lead about 50k:90k ratio as I remember, so I raise 4BBs. Then the big blind raises as well (pot commited). (around similar stack size with utg+1) And the UTG+1 goes all in. I fold. And the BB goes all in.

Thinking my odds weren't good I folded.

So the UTG+1 had a pair of 8s and the BB had AK offsuit.

UTG+1 won the pot with the pair, but there were 3 clubs on the board. 2 on the flop & 1 on the turn, so if I called, I would've won with the flush and would've gone to chip lead in the tournament.

Did I make the right move here? By folding & with my raises?

BTW I won the freeroll. It was a pretty small amount but my first freeroll win :D

If your chip stack is healthy and you can take two players out then yes call.
 
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dejan85

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with Ak suited you need to isolate one player with bigger raise you dont need to many players in a hand....
 
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