AK near 10BB's

zek

zek

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It's not the start of a SNG or tournament and you have around 15BB but a standard raise will put you near or under 10BB's. Do you prefer to raise here or shove all-in when you are the first to enter the pot? How much does your decision revolve around being first to enter the pot? I'd shove against a raise in front of me for sure, but what do you like to do when you're first?
 
Leo 50

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In a lot of cases, I would shove.
In some cases I would need to consider other stack sizes, aggression, etc.

AK is still not a made hand but can be used effectively depending on the situation.

:cool:
 
kidkvno1

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My 5K post.
Just raise it the 3X + 1 per limper.

It's the start of the game, you will find out who is loose and who is going to call you. I've been in the same spot before lots of times, when you hit your A or K it pays off, how ever their will be the times that you will have to fold, coz they called with PP or A rag and hit there A rag..
If you have a hand post it in here with out the out come of the hand, we could help you more.
 
zek

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Congrats on 5000. No specific hands, it's just something that comes up time and time again. BTW, I wasn't refering to the start of a game where the blinds are BB of 30 into 1500 stacks, I was referring to later on where maybe you have the same 1500 but the blinds are 50/100 or you have 1750 and the blinds are 75/150. Middle ish of SNG's I suppose.
 
c9h13no3

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Its pretty much always a shove.
 
cool32steve

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I agree, 15bbs and AK is 'bout always a shove.
 
naruto_miu

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I agree, 15bbs and AK is 'bout always a shove.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this 100%, You never want to shove 15 BB's deep with AK unless the Blinds are Really worth while to steal with it...

It all really depends on the Table Aggression, Table Loos-nesity, and alot of different Factors...I mean for me, AK utg early in an MTT Depends if it's a rebuy or not...If It's a Rebuy I'm not playing it slow (Why), because PPl Tend to play alot Looser in Rebuys rather then in Freezeouts..Yet if it's a Freeze out Early on PPL tend to play alot tighter there-fore I'm playing the AK as a trap/check raise/Check Call hand, and there-fore trying to keep the pot small early on, rather then let it get so Big, that I'd have to call it...

I mean Everyone has there Opionion but Shoving AK, with 15BB's deep is just not my way..
 
c9h13no3

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I'm laughing at you naruto... and not just because naruto is horrible anime.
 
cardplayer52

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tons depends on #of players and stack sizes. i'm not insta shoving 15bbs into a big stack on the bubble with a super short stack being forced allin with the blinds next hand.(one of many egs). but for most psots shoving 15bbs is better that folding AK, that doesnt mean shipping 15bbs is the most profitable play. the table "dynamic" can be a major factor in my decisions whether or not i shove here as well as how many other tables i got going.
 
salim271

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Standard raise will fail here... anyone calls you and you get a bad flop, ur basically screwed... might as well shove all 15BBs in, once ur under ten you have no fold equity to bigger stacks and if its around the bubble antes and blinds will chew up the rest of ur stack if you dont get lucky with cards.
 
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Whatever you do, don't fold, raise a small amount or limp...

It's a really easy jam, In MTT im pretty much always jamming it in. In some rare sng situations we can probably think of options apart from jamming.
 
No Brainer

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If there are antes I'm shoving every time. Without antes I don't mind a 3bb raise and shoving any flop, the only decision you will have to make is when you see a flop, miss and someone puts you all in before you get a chance to shove...
 
naruto_miu

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I'm laughing at you naruto... and not just because naruto is horrible anime.

How come because my opinion differs from yours, And Naruto ain't a Horrible Anime btw (It's not the top though:) ;) )..Look in the OP it states 15 BB's I'm not shoving 15BB's deep with AK early, when the blinds are relatively low compared to my stack, Later on It's a different story...

Also the Title States 10 BB's then I'd shove AK if it's 10bbs, but not 15bbs that's just me...
 
Poker Orifice

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I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this 100%, You never want to shove 15 BB's deep with AK unless the Blinds are Really worth while to steal with it...

It all really depends on the Table Aggression, Table Loos-nesity, and alot of different Factors...I mean for me, AK utg early in an MTT Depends if it's a rebuy or not...If It's a Rebuy I'm not playing it slow (Why), because PPl Tend to play alot Looser in Rebuys rather then in Freezeouts..Yet if it's a Freeze out Early on PPL tend to play alot tighter there-fore I'm playing the AK as a trap/check raise/Check Call hand, and there-fore trying to keep the pot small early on, rather then let it get so Big, that I'd have to call it...

I mean Everyone has there Opionion but Shoving AK, with 15BB's deep is just not my way..

I'd suggest you learn a 'new way'.

To answer OP's question here (oh... & btw I also STRONGLY DISAGREE with kidkvno's response).
Yes... when we're on a stack size of ~15bb's deep and let's say blinds are at around 50/100 (I'm assuming this is the level you're referring to?)... as it's an awkward stack size with blinds of this size.
Easiest way to play it is to just shove pre (although it does kinda make it like you're playing your hand face up).
My answer >>> "It depends". It depends on your table (player reads.. position you're in... who's in the blinds, etc. etc.). Shoving would pretty much be always +EV although you might possibly lose out on a bit of value. If it's a loose micro table then I'm shoving it all day long as you'll often get called down by AQ/AJ/ even AT (actually even worse than that on some of the tables I've been on recently).
If we're on a tighter table I'd consider opening for 2.5x but with intentions of looking to get it in on most flops.
 
kidkvno1

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Congrats on 5000. No specific hands, it's just something that comes up time and time again. BTW, I wasn't refering to the start of a game where the blinds are BB of 30 into 1500 stacks, I was referring to later on where maybe you have the same 1500 but the blinds are 50/100 or you have 1750 and the blinds are 75/150. Middle ish of SNG's I suppose.

Oh ok.. It's going to depend on the SNG and MTT, how good of a read you got.
In an SNG we can shove on the hand.
If you have been playing at the same table you should know whos going to do what, are they going to fold to a 3X raise, if they ain't folding then it's best to just shove.


Poker Orifice, Should we be doing the same in an MTT.
 
No Brainer

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If you have been playing at the same table you should know whos going to do what, are they going to fold to a 3X raise, if they ain't folding then it's best to just shove.

I'm not much of an STT player but is there a reason why you would prefer to shove rather than open raise get called and shove any flop? Most of the time your opponent will miss the flop and you will get the extra 3bbs on top of the blinds you would get from open shoving...
 
OzExorcist

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How come because my opinion differs from yours, And Naruto ain't a Horrible Anime btw (It's not the top though:) ;) )..Look in the OP it states 15 BB's I'm not shoving 15BB's deep with AK early, when the blinds are relatively low compared to my stack, Later on It's a different story...

Also the Title States 10 BB's then I'd shove AK if it's 10bbs, but not 15bbs that's just me...

A few thoughts:

If you've only got 15BB then blinds aren't low relative to your stack.

Also, what with rising blinds and all, a 15BB stack is usually only a few minutes away from becoming a 10-12BB stack if you don't do something about it.

Which leads to my third point - when you've got this little, it's pretty much always worth it to take the blinds. The difference here is we've got a premium hand and we want action for more than just the value of the blinds.

Is it an easier decision if you've got AK and only 10BB? Absolutely. But we don't get to pick our hands and there's no guarantee we'll get a hand this good again before we drop below the magical 10BB mark. This isn't a time to be playing timid or looking to keep the pot small IMO.
 
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It's not the start of a SNG or tournament and you have around 15BB but a standard raise will put you near or under 10BB's. Do you prefer to raise here or shove all-in when you are the first to enter the pot? How much does your decision revolve around being first to enter the pot? I'd shove against a raise in front of me for sure, but what do you like to do when you're first?

It still depends on everything.

The problem I have withthis question is that there is no context - and poker is all about making a decision in a context. About the only thing we are fairly sure about is that we want to play this hand (though I could probably dream up a situation where an open fold seems like a good idea). The following situations lead to completely different courses of action: generally tight/loose table? is there a nutter? has someone just taken a bad beat? have I? have I open raised the last 2/3/4 hands? is this the first hand I've played at this table? have I just doubled up when my 78s got good against AA? where's the bubble? payout structure? skill level of table? 3/200 table tourney? how many at table? where's the big stack/small stack? ......................................................................... etc.
 
bonflizubi

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I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this 100%, You never want to shove 15 BB's deep with AK unless the Blinds are Really worth while to steal with it...

It all really depends on the Table Aggression, Table Loos-nesity, and alot of different Factors...I mean for me, AK utg early in an MTT Depends if it's a rebuy or not...If It's a Rebuy I'm not playing it slow (Why), because PPl Tend to play alot Looser in Rebuys rather then in Freezeouts..Yet if it's a Freeze out Early on PPL tend to play alot tighter there-fore I'm playing the AK as a trap/check raise/Check Call hand, and there-fore trying to keep the pot small early on, rather then let it get so Big, that I'd have to call it...

I mean Everyone has there Opionion but Shoving AK, with 15BB's deep is just not my way..

naruto - your way is...simply put ... wrong.

While you don't have to open shove AK at 15 bb... it will never be incorrect to do so. THe problem with raising is if you get flatted by 3 guys and no ace or K comes. then you are folding and now having say 12bb. in online play just open shoving.. or shoving AK over any previous raises is the 100% mathematically unexploitable play. (Antes or not)

I'd only ever raise it if i thought it highly likely someone goes monkey nuts and jams over me so I can call off.
 
wolfie

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15 bb and ak under the gun:D

shove it baby;)

you wanna win or not :p

even against pp you will get a coinflip:)
 
BeaverTrump

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Reise 3-4 BB and call re-reise all-in. If the flop is bad for you - continue bet on the flop and check/fold on the turn/river if your hand did not become a monster
 
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I like to allin.Because u chips is not enough to play post flop.
Go allin.And take the pot,If u are luckly,some one call u with AQ AJ , I think u will double up u chips many times.
 
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OMG.NO!
Reise 3-4 BB and call re-reise all-in.

...What is the point of raise 3-4x BB and then calling a shove? If you're planning on calling a shove, you're way better off shoving it in first. You'll either get those shoving hands to fold and you pick up the blinds or you'll get called and will win if your hand holds up. If you're calling a shove, the only way to win is if you're hand holds up, so you're giving up a little chance to pad your stack with an UTG steal by just raise/calling here.

If the flop is bad for you - continue bet on the flop and check/fold on the turn/river if your hand did not become a monster

...This is so bad on so many levels.

Lets say your stack is 1500 and blinds are 50/100. You raise 4x BB and get one caller. The pot is now 950 and you don't hit anything. You decide to c-bet a little over half of the pot = 500 or 5x BB. You get called and then you check fold the turn.

So, let's see...you bet 9x BB before you folded, leaving you with 6 BBs left. Now, does this really make a lot of sense to you? What is your plan here with 6 BBs? Wait for a good hand, shove, and hope you double up? Lets not forget you're UTG so when blinds pass (assuming you fold blinds), you're sitting on a 5.5 BB stack. Even if you do shove and double up, you'll still be in a far worse position than you are now.
above.
 
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