AJ in small blind facing a usual steal

D

DjangoXL

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Hi
I was in Day 2 in a tournament, i had around 400K chip and the Big blind was 12K.

I have AJ in the small blind and it folded to a guy who raise 2 position from the button to 35K..... Usually he gonna try to steal with any 2 broadway card or raggy ACE so i decide to raise to 100K with my 400k Stack.

After my raise, he push all in 400K and i tank and folded!

My analysis was that if he repushed after my 3bet he must be better than my AJ or at best maybe im flipping against 77 or 88 at best!! What do you guys think:confused:
 
fly2tsky

fly2tsky

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Total posts
183
Chips
0
so he raised nearly 3BB, thats pretty great to limp very good hands. Anw there are still some missing infos that only you can tell because you experienced it yourself. I just wanna say that if this agressive playstyle is your then keep doing it. Its profitable and dont let some random hands ruining your habit
 
Andrey Smirnov

Andrey Smirnov

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Total posts
119
Chips
0
100k 3-bet was too big, as for me. And we cant be sure that he will raise pretty loose from the button without any info and statistics. But usually - yes, he will fold a lot of times , AJ is usually good against even btn steal from tight player.
 
B

BAGELBEAR

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Total posts
234
Chips
0
Right or wrong, I would just call the raise and see a flop. Then I can decide what's next depending on what comes out, and I can fold if I miss and get off relatively easy. I have folded AJ preflop with a raise before me if it doesn't feel right to make the call. Oh, well, you just never know :confused:

Debby
 
NCDaddy

NCDaddy

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Total posts
709
Chips
0
I think it's too big a raise in that position. You're acting first if he just calls and you've just committed 1/4 of your stack. If you miss the flop, then what? A c-bet costs your stack big time. You could check/fold I guess, but I don't like that .

I'd rather a smaller raise. But, I'd also like to know villain stack size and table image?
 
D

DjangoXL

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Hi
I was in Day 2 in a tournament, i had around 400K chip and the Big blind was 12K.

I have AJ in the small blind and it folded to a guy who raise 2 position from the button to 35K..... Usually he gonna try to steal with any 2 broadway card or raggy ACE so i decide to raise to 100K with my 400k Stack.

After my raise, he push all in 400K and i tank and folded!

My analysis was that if he repushed after my 3bet he must be better than my AJ or at best maybe im flipping against 77 or 88 at best!! What do you guys think:confused:


PS: it live poker !!! AND the player had around the same stack(460K) as me so when he push i felt my AJ was beat or maybe i was flipping at best but i think i could just flatted also but im gonna missed too many times and his rag or cards will hit sometime...But i do think i could a raise to 75K would have accomplished the same thing and for his images it was hard to tell he was tight aggressive i would say!!!
 
D

DjangoXL

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Total posts
5
Chips
0
I think it's too big a raise in that position. You're acting first if he just calls and you've just committed 1/4 of your stack. If you miss the flop, then what? A c-bet costs your stack big time. You could check/fold I guess, but I don't like that .

I'd rather a smaller raise. But, I'd also like to know villain stack size and table image?

I think you are right (sorry for my english) 70K would have accomplished the same thing. And the villain had around 460K, i would say he was tight aggressive he wasn't loose or too tight but he push when he had too.
 
D

DjangoXL

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Total posts
5
Chips
0
I think you are right (sorry for my english) 70K would have accomplished the same thing. And the villain had around 460K, i would say he was tight aggressive he wasn't loose or too tight but he push when he had too.

so he raised nearly 3BB, thats pretty great to limp very good hands. Anw there are still some missing infos that only you can tell because you experienced it yourself. I just wanna say that if this agressive playstyle is your then keep doing it. Its profitable and dont let some random hands ruining your habit

Ok,thank for the advice!
 
George Lewis

George Lewis

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
135
Chips
0
By raising to 100k you are praying he folds. Which to me means you are essentially bluffing. If he calls the 100k bet you will need a very nice flop to be comfortable that you are ahead and that will not happen often with AJ. If he shoves like he did then you will have to fold. In tournament play like this I do not want to be in these situations. I don't care if he is getting away with a move here or not. I will fold this hand unless I have a good reason not to. You are plenty deep here and do not need to get 25 percent of your stack in with a marginally good hand out of position. You can call sometimes but again you are out of position and need a good flop. I fold pre flop here unless I am very deep or very short. Do not bother trying to catch someone opening light. Just give him the small blind money and steal it back later yourself.
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
to all you in the it was too big camp I woulda raised to 130-140K range with AJ and made the same fold to the allin if it came.
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
I think you are right (sorry for my english) 70K would have accomplished the same thing. And the villain had around 460K, i would say he was tight aggressive he wasn't loose or too tight but he push when he had too.

How does 70K ever get the job done there? If you raise to 70K the pot is at 111K + whatever the antes are. Do you think he is seriously ever not going to at least call for an additional 35K? I think a raise to 70K is going to get at least a call with any 2 cards but more likely it is going to induce a reraise. Both of those outcomes you don't want holding AJ.
 
Last edited:
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
to all you in the it was too big camp I woulda raised to 130-140K range with AJ and made the same fold to the allin if it came.
Online I would probably make it 120K (There is a reason) :)
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
to all you in the it was too big camp I woulda raised to 130-140K range with AJ and made the same fold to the allin if it came.

Edit: If this person was playing a too many hands I would have have probably called the shove with AJ. I have played for a lot more than 33bbs with AJ vs loose.
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
How does 70K ever get the job done there? If you raise to 70K the pot is at 111K + whatever the antes are. Do you think he is seriously ever not going to at least call for an additional 35K? I think a raise to 70K is going to get at least a call with any 2 cards but more likely it is going to induce a reraise. Both of those outcomes you don't want holding AJ.

Actually 70k plus 35k plus 12k bb is 117K not 111K I thought he was in bb not sb for some reason but that changes nothing on my thoughts above.
 
Last edited:
poliaris747

poliaris747

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Total posts
1,540
Chips
0
Before any rate you must have a plan for every possible situation! You should already decide in advance what you'll do if you answer the all in turns out you do not bet rishil through as it will play prilyuboy situation! Or do you think that he was simply disposing the card? At this stage of the tournament all cherish their chips!
 
CadoARAJ

CadoARAJ

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Total posts
3,072
Awards
5
Chips
34
I would not raise with a pré-raise in SB position. In maximum, I would just call his raise and try to control the pot or just fold. Dificult decision, but SB position is simply the worst in the table.
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
Hi
I was in Day 2 in a tournament, i had around 400K chip and the Big blind was 12K.

I have AJ in the small blind and it folded to a guy who raise 2 position from the button to 35K..... Usually he gonna try to steal with any 2 broadway card or raggy ACE so i decide to raise to 100K with my 400k Stack.

After my raise, he push all in 400K and i tank and folded!

My analysis was that if he repushed after my 3bet he must be better than my AJ or at best maybe im flipping against 77 or 88 at best!! What do you guys think:confused:
One thing I did notice is your title of this post. That pretty much sums up why this sb vs button open is a great spot for a 3 bet with worse than AJ. I would do it a high percentage of the time with pretty much the very bottom of my opening range unless the button player is a proven super tight player or the BB player is a proven loose player or both those things are true.
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

Lucky Ducky
Loyaler
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
2,661
Awards
2
US
Chips
153
Hi
I was in Day 2 in a tournament, i had around 400K chip and the Big blind was 12K.

I have AJ in the small blind and it folded to a guy who raise 2 position from the button to 35K..... Usually he gonna try to steal with any 2 broadway card or raggy ACE so i decide to raise to 100K with my 400k Stack.

After my raise, he push all in 400K and i tank and folded!

My analysis was that if he repushed after my 3bet he must be better than my AJ or at best maybe im flipping against 77 or 88 at best!! What do you guys think:confused:
One thing in the title ("usual steal") I did notice. That pretty much sums up why this sb vs button open is a great spot for a 3 bet with worse than AJ. I would do it a high percentage of the time with pretty much the very bottom of my opening range unless the button player is a proven super tight player or the BB player is a proven loose player or both those things are true.
I would just try to do it big enough to put a question in the initial raisers head of is your reraise committing you but also keep the raise amount so it is not giving him any justification for just a call.
 
Last edited:
C

chng1t

Enthusiast
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
49
Awards
1
Chips
0
when you have around 33bb 3bet with AJo as a bluff, which means folding to 4bet, which you did, but it makes sense to just call and see a flop. As your opponent is stealing he could easy have ATo,A9o,A8o, so you dominate him. when flop comes an ace, usually your hand will be good.
 
IntenseHeat

IntenseHeat

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Unless this is one of those players that is constantly and repeatedly making an obvious move to steal the blinds from a certain position, for example always making a raise every time he is in the cutoff position, I would probably be willing to let his 3x raise stand and just call and see the flop. If they are one of those players that makes obvious, blatant attempts at stealing the blinds over and over, then I would say the 3-bet is warranted. Otherwise, I wouldn't be too eager to get into a pre-flop pissing war with A-J.

A lot of players say that their pre-flop raises either to try to steal the blinds, or to try to start building a big pot when they are holding a strong hand. My raises and 3-bets are generally limit the number of players in the pot to reduce the chances of some luck box hitting bingo on me. But at that point in the tournament most of the bingo players are likely long gone. And with blinds at that level, the chances of the BB speculating with a mediocre hand are also likely to be greatly reduced. So again, I would have probably let the 3x raise stand and just flat called.

As for thinking that his 4-bet shove meant that he was probably holding better than A-J, I have had players 3 and 4-bet shove on me with a lot less. I'm not saying that folding was wrong, but in the past I have mentioned that when certain players are shown on TV having success playing a certain way, it's not unusual to see a lot of people trying to mimic their play. Having seen Qui Nguyen's domination of the final table of the wsop Main Event, I am not surprised to see lots of players trying to emulate his aggressive style. Just yesterday I had a player 4-bet shove on me with K-2 off. Again, I'm not saying it was a bad fold. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Top