AJ, AQ,AK vs pair

#1 July 26th, 2013, 5:11 PM

Just wondering if this is bad play on my behalf...

Sometimes I can read when a player is holding AJ,AQ or AK preflop by his betting pattern. In the mid tournaments when my chip stack is below average and his raise is folded to me I will either call his raise & if the flop is dry for him, raise all in to protect my hand or go all in preflop if I'm in need of a all or nothing double up. This has worked for me a few times, sometimes that river card has sucked me out lol I know the odds are roughly 50/50 I'm just not sure if its donk play or is this correct play?

Also another question is when in a coin flip against AK I read that any pair holds the same value QQ does is this true?

#2 July 26th, 2013, 5:30 PM

If you have AK and are up against a pocket pair, the pair has a little bit more of an advantage if it is QQ-TT. You need those cards on the board to make a straight and if two of them are out that reduces your chances. The difference isn't much because the odds of making a straight by the river with AK are 27.7:1 against when you're up against a pocket pair that is 99-22, and 47.1:1 against if you are up against QQ-TT. Long shot in either case.

#3 July 26th, 2013, 5:34 PM

You can use this to help https://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-calculator.php

#4 July 26th, 2013, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Propane Goat

If you have AK and are up against a pocket pair, the pair has a little bit more of an advantage if it is QQ-TT. You need those cards on the board to make a straight and if two of them are out that reduces your chances. The difference isn't much because the odds of making a straight by the river with AK are 27.7:1 against when you're up against a pocket pair that is 99-22, and 47.1:1 against if you are up against QQ-TT. Long shot in either case.

Thank you for this bit of knowledge here defiantly noted down

#5 July 26th, 2013, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by shannonknowles

Just wondering if this is bad play on my behalf...

Sometimes I can read when a player is holding AJ,AQ or AK preflop by his betting pattern. In the mid tournaments when my chip stack is below average and his raise is folded to me I will either call his raise & if the flop is dry for him, raise all in to protect my hand or go all in preflop if I'm in need of a all or nothing double up. This has worked for me a few times, sometimes that river card has sucked me out lol I know the odds are roughly 50/50 I'm just not sure if its donk play or is this correct play?

My short answer: If you're thinking a player has a Big Ace and missed on the flop then you can three-bet/shove. Hopefully he folds. If he calls and you were right then you're in a great position where HE has to suck out on YOU. I'd rather get my money in at that spot any day.

When you say the raise is folded to me, do you mean that another bettor opened the action on the flop? What about pre?
You really have to consider other players in this spot. Who raised pre-flop? Was there a re-raise from the Big Ace or maybe even the other way around??

If you are calling raises and re-raises with any pair and out of position you probably have a big leak in your game.

Finally, back to my original question about where you are sitting because aside from the betting action, position makes all the difference in this situation. If there was a bet between you and the raiser, then you have to worry about this player after you act. You do not want two callers if you missed the flop with your small pair even if you might suck out on the turn or river. You want heads up against ATC that missed.

Best case and least likely scenario is they somehow call with two undercards (straight, flush draw, smaller pair)...
Next best is one overcard, no pair followed by two overcards, no pair...
Worst case as you already know is they hit the flop in which case you get snap called by two pair and go home....

#6 July 26th, 2013, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by NvrBlufn

My short answer: If you're thinking a player has a Big Ace and missed on the flop then you can three-bet/shove. Hopefully he folds. If he calls and you were right then you're in a great position where HE has to suck out on YOU. I'd rather get my money in at that spot any day.

When you say the raise is folded to me, do you mean that another bettor opened the action on the flop? What about pre?
You really have to consider other players in this spot. Who raised pre-flop? Was there a re-raise from the Big Ace or maybe even the other way around??

If you are calling raises and re-raises with any pair and out of position you probably have a big leak in your game.

Finally, back to my original question about where you are sitting because aside from the betting action, position makes all the difference in this situation. If there was a bet between you and the raiser, then you have to worry about this player after you act. You do not want two callers if you missed the flop with your small pair even if you might suck out on the turn or river. You want heads up against ATC that missed.

Best case and least likely scenario is they somehow call with two undercards (straight, flush draw, smaller pair)...
Next best is one overcard, no pair followed by two overcards, no pair...
Worst case as you already know is they hit the flop in which case you get snap called by two pair and go home....

Yes very true in what your saying indeed

Let me give you a example

Mid/late in a MTT tournament blinds 600/1200

Early position with a big stack of 45000 3 bets 3600 with AK

Everyone folds to me and I'm the last player to act, I'm holding lets say 22 and my stack size is below average at 12,000 would it be bad play to shove all in here and hope to double up?

Early on in a tournament I believe its far to early to be taking a risk like this because there will be better chances but taking stack sizes, blinds/antes into consideration I'm not sure if you pros would consider this as donk play?

Sometimes I've doubled up from this situation, even once went onto take down the tournament, other times I feel like I've just wasted several hours because I've busted out so I'm not sure I'm 50/50 here.

#7 July 26th, 2013, 11:25 PM

Well I am no pro in fact I am probably one of the donkier players on CC... uhm, but what I was gonna say is.. Regardless of stack sizes, early position raises usually read s-t-r-o-n-g.

Now a player with triple your average chip count is probably getting used to people folding all around on his raises and continuing to collect more and more blinds, right? So chances are he can afford to make this raise with suited hands, middle connectors, and any pair (which is going to be higher than your 2s). He is also going to be reading you and your chip stack to try and guess what range of cards you would put up against his raise. He might guess any low pair and snap call you with his 9s.

In any sense you are looking for a call from someone with two over cards or a pair. I wouldn't do it because I get really dejected going out in mid-late stages when I have been playing really well most of the day. It takes lots of self-control, good decisions, and a little luck to make it to the final table, but only one mistake can have you nearly out on your @ss.

IMO its better not to get involved with low pairs unless you can establish the lead in the hand which you can't when the big stack is raising pre-flop. You are just giving away your chips to him most of the time because he will bully you right out of it and you barely have enough chips to handle a continuation bet it becomes a hit or fold situation.

You aren't guaranteed to be safe on any board without paint post flop btw. Depending on the player (and the board) he might call your all-in with a hand like A8 when the flop shows 778.

If the pot is weakly limped to you pre-flop maybe you can raise it and take the lead. Then you have some ways to win the pot later on, or you can trap someone when that Q26 flop appears.

But in this case I say call behind him or fold. The call here reads pretty strong! When you hit you will probably double up through him, if you don't hit he might be on guard against you. You'd still have enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6sv1lwWg7Q

#8 July 27th, 2013, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by shannonknowles

Just wondering if this is bad play on my behalf...

Sometimes I can read when a player is holding AJ,AQ or AK preflop by his betting pattern. In the mid tournaments when my chip stack is below average and his raise is folded to me I will either call his raise & if the flop is dry for him, raise all in to protect my hand or go all in preflop if I'm in need of a all or nothing double up.

It's impossible to give you even a remotely decent answer because all of the relevant info. is missing. Whether or not your chipstack is below average is pretty much useless info.
One would need to know the relevant chipstacks (along with the chipstacks of all other players on the table) size of blinds, position, player reads, image, etc. before bein' able to give a response of any value. (just my opinion)

#9 July 27th, 2013, 7:33 AM

If you are SURE that the villain does not have a higher pocket pair, you should go all in since it is still a +EV move. The percentages are 57%-43%.

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AJ, AQ,AK vs pair

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