Advice on a hand please :)

ok so its only the 5th hand of the MTT

My stack is at max 3000 cus thats how much we start with and its my BB

I am holding Q 10o and its limped all around to me seeing a flop 5 way

the flop then comes K J 2 (there is 2 hearts on the board and a club)
so guy min raises, and another guy raises out there for 120 chips pot would be 240 now, so i felt if i call im going to assume the min raiser isnt trying to buy the pot with a min raise and will call (which he does) that means 360 in the pot so i have to call 120 to win 480 and im getting 8 outs with a 32% chance of hitting.

the turn arrives giving us the 9 of spades again since we had a hugely agressive opponent i felt like i could slow play this made straight as he is sure to bet out again, he doesnt instead the min raiser min raises again and the hugely agressive opponent on the flop just flatted the min raise.

now i put in a huge bold move here, i raise it right up to 1.9k chips (remember starting stack is only 3000) so im leaving myself with only 900 chips
in my eyes im saying to the opponent do you really have a hand you want to play, his only move at this stage should be all in or fold but he flats me yet again, and the river gives one last heart

OBVIOUSLY its all going in, because even though a final heart has hit, my turn told him i am playing this to the end, and he shows over K 6s with the hearts, so his flush beat my straight


my question is this, how should i have played this hand, because guy clearly was a fish, and i feel there was no way of avoiding this as the hand played out, was it worth the risk committing myself on the turn? or should i have just shoved it as i had the nuts, i mean if hes going to call a bet for 3/4 of his stack on a flush draw he will lose 84% of the time

any feedback would be greatful

kingmunchers said:

ok so its only the 5th hand of the MTT

My stack is at max 3000 cus thats how much we start with and its my BB

I am holding Q 10o and its limped all around to me seeing a flop 5 way

the flop then comes K J 2 (there is 2 hearts on the board and a club)
so guy min raises, and another guy raises out there for 120 chips pot would be 240 now, so i felt if i call im going to assume the min raiser isnt trying to buy the pot with a min raise and will call (which he does) that means 360 in the pot so i have to call 120 to win 480 and im getting 8 outs with a 32% chance of hitting.

the turn arrives giving us the 9 of spades again since we had a hugely agressive opponent i felt like i could slow play this made straight as he is sure to bet out again, he doesnt instead the min raiser min raises again and the hugely agressive opponent on the flop just flatted the min raise.

now i put in a huge bold move here, i raise it right up to 1.9k chips (remember starting stack is only 3000) so im leaving myself with only 900 chips
in my eyes im saying to the opponent do you really have a hand you want to play, his only move at this stage should be all in or fold but he flats me yet again, and the river gives one last heart

OBVIOUSLY its all going in, because even though a final heart has hit, my turn told him i am playing this to the end, and he shows over K 6s with the hearts, so his flush beat my straight


my question is this, how should i have played this hand, because guy clearly was a fish, and i feel there was no way of avoiding this as the hand played out, was it worth the risk committing myself on the turn? or should i have just shoved it as i had the nuts, i mean if hes going to call a bet for 3/4 of his stack on a flush draw he will lose 84% of the time

any feedback would be greatful

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I have heard more than once "you always want to be careful going broke in a limped in pot." And "never bet a stright into a possible flush or a higher straight" and "we all have a calling reflex, easy to trigger". My friend, like I have myself so often, you hit the trifecta on this one!

In your situation, you know there could be both; any flush hand (most likely already paired) looking for third flush card and a limped A-Q looking for a 10 - just that alone on the flop. Yet you flat called a re raise (over called) on a board that had both; you have to have a stronger hand to overcall with than to call. You did not. Still, not bad...pot odds for a cash game might say overcall it, but survival in a MTT says you are/might be beat, give it up or use pot control the rest of the way. What else could they have? A raise and a re-raise sort of says strong hand by at least one of them - one might be full of hot air, but both? So after the flop action you do not want to do anything other than check or flat call if chasing, even after you make it on the turn. You have to see a river if a flush is possible before going nuclear.

Still again, you could have shoved the flop with your open end straight, yet a 4 card flush/top pair (maybe even bottom) held by an aggressive player will still call (his 14 outs to your 8). Wouldn't you? Then you are chasing a naked straight draw and he is chasing a even better hand - a flush/trips/top two pair. You instead went in deep on the turn (Zero pot control). Hey, who has not done this? I know I have.

I despise making the "big laydown" (lol), and I am sure you do as well, yet that is exactly what you must do sometimes in an MTT. Cash is a different story. Even if they are not bluffing, the times you are wrong will not lose more $$ than you make the times you are right. You just whip out the ol bankroll and peel off another few bills for a new stack.

In an MTT you lose, you are gone. You gotta walk fine line between survival and aggression. Many would rather risk it all early then tighten up later. If it's a 1.00 micro you might be able to pay that off the times you double/triple early on and make it into the money because of that.

Sounds like that was exactly what you ran into, combined with a strong hand with many outs to improve even more.

Your raise was unusual. You should've either raised less (maybe triple the original bet) or shoved all-in. With a lesser raise, the weak player will call anyway and you can at least reasonably fold the hand without being pot committed. Or you could shove, which makes the drawing player pay a HORRIBLE price for the draw. You basically bet so much that it would commit you to the pot even if the heart dropped on the river. You would be better off risking it all and making him decide if he wants to risk his entire stack on 4:1 shot.

Terrible players WILL call an all in on a flush draw on the turn. You played it right as far as I am concerned and just got unlucky on the river. If you were merely careful on the turn and just call then you arent getting payed off on the river if the heart doesnt come. I always raise on the turn when I have a big hand and think someone is on a draw. Good players will fold a big raise and bad players will pay you off for the draw and you will win 3/4 times.

One could say not to take risks early on in an MTT but then again you dont just make nuts on the turn and play it safe. And doubling up early on in an MTT just gives you so much more room to breath.

However it could be argued that your raise was too much because there was an ace high straight draw as well on the board.

But as I said above I am fairly sure if you went all in you would have been called so I dont think that would have saved you.

thanks just popped on to check on my thread to see some feedback and im actually quite impressed with the information given, and this is the main reason i came here in the first place

so let me just clarify a few things first

Dont go broke in a limped pot..... ive heard this advice before and its so true, it literally took a pot and a half if not more to get the guy committed to his hand (obviously the guy had no idea of pot odds, and if were thinking he is that bad he might even be bad enough to fold the river after missing his heart, so to get max value out of his hand we would of needed to go all in which would of been a risk not worth taking in an MTT really early on)

is that what your getting at michael paler?


sorry mr sandbag, but in my eyes pot is 480, and guy raises 20, and i have the nuts, am i really going to raise 60 chips giving every tom, dick and harry the odds to call for there next card?

and thank you thinker 145, i was considering going all in, but i figured putting 2/3 of my stack in the middle on the turn said the same thing, and the fact that i didnt fold the river when the heart hit goes to show it said the same thing.

Flushes are rare and villain can have at least 2pair or sets. You were plainly ahead when you raised up the turn and more or less had to call the river.

You played this fine I think.

Just adding my 2 cents. I think you called too much after the flop. You paid 25% of the pot for one card (actually more, since you acted before the 3rd player called, with only 16% chance of hitting your straight(on the turn). Perhaps because you called there, the other player didn't put you on a straight draw and didn't believe you had a straight when you shoved. I'm guessing he had some kind of hand, even without the flush. But heck, what do I know. So many things going on in a game!

just a girl said:

Just adding my 2 cents. I think you called too much after the flop. You paid 25% of the pot for one card (actually more, since you acted before the 3rd player called, with only 16% chance of hitting your straight(on the turn). Perhaps because you called there, the other player didn't put you on a straight draw and didn't believe you had a straight when you shoved.

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I can't assume he was thinking that deeply about the hand. He doesn't seem that good.

Still, you CAN very comfortably peel one for 1/4 pot with 8 outs, as long as you can expect to get paid the remainder if you hit (which you can often -- all it takes is one extra bet).

that was my thought on the hand tbf i didnt just auto call the flop, i hesitated looked at both my opponents, put 1 on a draw, the other on a made hand, which is why i put both opponents into consideration when calling the flop, yes i had put that player on a flush draw, but then when he called the pot and a half sized raise on the turn i thought he could of had a set or a 2 pair, but either way even if i put him on a flush i cant fold the river, the fact that i had to do pot and a half on the turn shows i had plenty of fold equity if i miss the turn, adding an extra note, other player min raised, so he wasnt going to inflate the pot on the turn, and i get to see what the other player was going to do before acting myself after considering all the above i made the call, the odds probably werent completely there to hit it on the turn, but i definately had the implied odds of if i hit i can probably get 1 of my opponents in given the agressiveness of my opponents, so much to consider