Acting Quickly Towards the Bubble

I found a frustrating situation in an ACR freeroll the other day and was wondering if anyone else uses/thinks this is a good strategy.

I had about 16k left in chips and the player to my left had about 46k. The “normal” stack at the table was closer to mine, so villain was out in front for sure. The blinds were up there, so I certainly wasn’t comfy (about 15bb), but I would imagine 46k would have been excellent at this stage. There were about 30 left and these pay 10.

Villain started acting slowly. They would clock out each time and then reactive their seat as soon as they folded. This seemed insane to me! I don’t think there is ever a spot that far from the money at a MTT where I want to slow down the game.

For a short stack it’s especially bad - I need a double up to have any kind of a shot. For a larger stack my thought is this - the average stack will be a ~100k for this tourney size. I want as many hands as possible looking to pick up free blinds and snipe the short stacks that are desperate with their Ax and their suited Kings.

In this instance I watched the player get blinded down through folding to below the chip average (35k) before my double up attempt failed with 28 left. I was sad for both of us.

What do you think? Is it ever good to slow down how many hands your table sees?

Near bubble is a good phase for a big stack because he can open and even if he doesn't hit the flop he can take the pot down with a cbet, the smaller stacks can't chase much here because they are not deep enough.

I play some times those $10 on demand and the gap between 30 to 10 paid players is huge.it's not a hyper tournament in order to get eliminated 20 players in less than an orbit!Don't bother what others do, seriously a double up is the most rational outcome you are seeking for your 15bbs in order to final table it and ok to be honest here only the first price is let's say ''decent'' $2.50!

Personally I don't stall in order to min cash a tournament unless is a very special case and i don't have hope to go deep. Otherwise I don't feel fear and I jam with the hope of a double up!

I personally wont do that and really cant understand why people do it. I am there to play poker and hopefully make some coin if lucky. To just start wasting time is silly as hell in this situation especially when you consider what you get for just making the cash. I can understand when a short stack stalls on the bubble but 20+ to the bubble i cant understand.

When I have big stack, I don't slow play. I will go all in on every hand trying to increase my stack. I have found out that if you have a big gap between what big blinds you have compared to the rest of the table, you can go all in every hand and increase your stack even more.

Alot of people dont know how to correctly manage their time banks,but if used properly 20 or 15 players away from the bubble while you are short stacked can almost always guarantee ITM..At ACR you have a regular time bank which is about 15 seconds and the extra time bank 30 sometimes 60 seconds depending on tourny..You can effectively slow your table down while other tables keep playing by running regular time bank off plus extra time bank at 5 second intervals,it doesnt matter if blinds go up,,they wont hurt you as much as they will the players on the other tables who are now playing 3 times more hands than your table.The other tables eliminate each other while you lose hardly any chips.This technique does not work in hand for hand play though because each table has to finish be for all tables can start the next hand unless the bubble for ITM is like 183 or something.I only use this method if im short stacked,doesnt matter what the payout is..money made is money in the bank instead of wasting 2 hours or more coming away with nothing but a fun experience.

xxxREAPERxxx said:

I only use this method if im short stacked,doesnt matter what the payout is..money made is money in the bank instead of wasting 2 hours or more coming away with nothing but a fun experience.

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I don’t think this works on the ACR freerolls. When you go hand for hand it’s w 13 left down to 10. So all of the short stacks can do the math and figure out how many hands you have left compared to them. That’s why I think it’s even more important to get more hands in before the hand for hand starts. I always want to be in striking distance when 13 are left.

cgcook38 said:

I don’t think this works on the ACR freerolls. When you go hand for hand it’s w 13 left down to 10. So all of the short stacks can do the math and figure out how many hands you have left compared to them. That’s why I think it’s even more important to get more hands in before the hand for hand starts. I always want to be in striking distance when 13 are left.

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no it doesnt work when you get to the 13th place bubble in $10 on demands but it atleast helps you get to the hand for hand,once you are in hand for hand you might have to double up to make ITM or atleast just try to stay out of the way.Most short stacks are afraid to play hands unless they are high quality in hand for hand,so at the 13th place it starts to get harder if you are in less than 10th place you might have to win a decent hand to make ITM.But you also have the bigger stacks who like to keep playing each other and alot of times they eliminate each other while in hand for hand,i dont know why because the smartest thing to do is blind the short stacks out.

I don't like it when other people run their clock down to nothing and fold. It won't help the game whatsoever. If they're doing it when it goes hand for hand, it is utterly pointless. Unfortunately it's the crux of online poker.

the big stack will always apply all the strategies and tricks they have to achieve their goal, whether it is playing with pressure or doing what you say to desperate the opponent

pancho_1954 said:

the big stack will always apply all the strategies and tricks they have to achieve their goal, whether it is playing with pressure or doing what you say to desperate the opponent

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This helps literally the rest of the field but not the villain. I can't believe for a second that this is a strategy that helps at all. The villain played zero hands while getting blinded off 10k chips at the slowest rate possible. I need some perspective here: Isn't it most profitable for the chip leader - who has the most power - to apply pressure against the low stacks in AS MANY hands as possible instead of as few hands?

I think it depends on the situation? If he is not only the table chip leader but also the substantial tournament chip leader then no. It actually benefits him to not get involved in pots with marginal hands that could potentially put him on tilt to a terrible beat. Also most people who play a lot of deeper tournaments no better than to get involved without a monster around the bubble. Short desperate stacks do crazy things and unfortunately most sites reward their stupidity on a regular basis. More times than not when a big stack calls an all in there is some #$&hole waiting behind them to shove with his much larger all in stack and suited 7/4. It's always a lot more than what you first called but not enough to make you fold. It's just simply not worth the headache.

SouthparkSith said:

. Also most people who play a lot of deeper tournaments no better than to get involved without a monster around the bubble.

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I agree that it’s not wise to play big pots without a monster near the bubble. However, as a chip leader I want to be very active the closer the bubble gets. There are so many marginal hands that will fold.

In this specific incident, the player is not moving up in chips. They were already half of what the avg will be once the bubble pops. And the result was very few hands plays but losing 20% of their stack. That’s an awful result. There is probably some math behind it too. I’ll check.

you need to play very aggressively

xxxREAPERxxx said:

the smartest thing to do is blind the short stacks out.

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SouthparkSith said:

Also most people who play a lot of deeper tournaments no better than to get involved without a monster around the bubble.

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pancho_1954 said:

the big stack will always apply all the strategies and tricks they have to achieve their goal, whether it is playing with pressure or doing what you say to desperate the opponent

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So I did some quick math. At this stage of these tournaments, there are generally around 20-25 people left. Often that means 6-8 people at a table. Most hands take about 45 seconds to complete, but each player has the option to run down the clock an additional 20 seconds each time they have action.

At a 7 person table with 500/1000/125 blinds, not playing costs a player ~339/hand. Blinds are ten minutes long, so the round will last ~13 hands. By taking the extra 20 seconds and acting only 8 times in the seven hands, a player can shorten that to 9 hands. If they are only folding, that means they will save 1,350ish chips by not seeing those four hands that other tables probably saw. If they act normally and see 13 hands and only win once, on their BB when everyone folds to them, they will actually make that difference up by collecting 1375 chips. This is by playing passively but fast. Forget raising once or twice in 13 hands and possibly making 2,375 chips in one uncontested pot.

Of course the passive, slow 9 hands, only playing monsters will work from time to time, but if I have a decent hand, I want to push. I want to see more hands so I can push more. I want to play 13 hands when a trip around the table only costs 2,375 chips folding every time instead of 9 hands at 2,375 and the next four at 3,300/trip at the next blind level.