Aces 2nd Hand

I was playing a $30 satellite into a $300 tourney and the second hand i was dealt was AsAd in the BB. There were two limpers in mid positions and a limp from the button. I raised 3.5bb, the two mid postion players folded and the bb called. Flop came Js10s9d the button checked, i bet about 40% of the pot, the button then shoved all in (about 9.5k) which then put me allin. Question is do i call or fold.

steveiam said:

I was playing a $30 satellite into a $300 tourney and the second hand i was dealt was AsAd in the BB. There were two limpers in mid positions and a limp from the button. I raised 3.5bb, the two mid postion players folded and the bb called. Flop came Js10s9d the button checked, i bet about 40% of the pot, the button then shoved all in (about 9.5k) which then put me allin. Question is do i call or fold.

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Fold 100%, you're beat.

This is even without knowing what the actual blinds were, you say it's the 2nd hand and that the guy had 9.5K, but we can only assume it's 100/200 and you started with 10k stacks?

absoluthamm said:

Fold 100%, you're beat.

This is even without knowing what the actual blinds were, you say it's the 2nd hand and that the guy had 9.5K, but we can only assume it's 100/200 and you started with 10k stacks?

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+1 not much u beat here

It's early in the tournament, and you are looking at a straight. Most days I fold, but if I am hitting good that day I would call.

Rewind and dont CBet
You are either crushed or massive draw, easy fold

Shove all in preflop

Hmm... a limp followed by a 3.5 BB call, and then a check followed by an all in. This guy is really passive aggressive, isn't he?

With your betting, he has to know you have something. But he is happy to get all his chips in there. I can't see betting like that with a flush draw, so maybe his connectors did hit. Or maybe he has a set of 9's.

What's your stack size at this point? Your bet after the flop was a little on the weak side, so you might be OK since he is just trying to steal while on a draw. But still, I don't like where you are at this point. That's not a good flop for aces.

I think this is a tough one, but I would fold. With aces, if someone stays with you and the flop is a bad one (like here) there is not much you can do unless you can get the jump on them. He's already all in, so I think you're done.

Can't wait to see how this did turn out.

In lower stakes I would call, but in this situation I would fold. Its too early to get a read on the other players.

You're never ever good here, plus you don't really have to call an overshove that big without the nuts ever, your odds are never that good unless you hold like a monster draw or the near-nuts (if you had like AsKs or QJ you pretty much have to call anything and everything for instance).

Ergo, snap fold.

At this point, not a good situation to get it all in. Too risky without any more info. I'm thinking he 2 paired or may even have the other 2 aces.

fold. sometimes on these flops with a couple of players i will actually check fold. 10 J 9 or Q 10 9 or whatever flops present so many 2 pairs/ straights that have your aces crushed. if the board is dry then i go with the hand but on very wet boards it is sometimes okay just to check fold.

I would fold for sure. Rough luck, with aces maybe a higjrr pre flop raise?

I had a very similar situation, i had QQ, raised 4x big blind, person called flop came 89T, i bet 70% of pot, the person reraised pretty much all in, and being the shit donk that I am, I called and the person turned out to have 7J, so I think that folding would be the correct play

to me seems like easy fold. AA usually go big or go home at low stakes or a freeroll,but in your situation i would fold assuming he hit trips or connectors. cant see chasing at those stakes but you never know.hmmmmm

Thanks for the input. I knew when I called it was probably the wrong decision. As it happened he had Qs6s so he was on a draw. He hit a spade on the turn and blank on the river. It seems nobody is folding a flush draw these days.

as i've learned a lot by slow playing aces. now i overbet with AA preflop or all in. losing with AAs is the worst as you always expect to be invincible.

Reason for calling: villain seems like a huge fish (on a FD)... what else is limping then making a huge overbet shove here?

Reason for folding: it's a 'satellite'. Goal is not chip/stack accumulation as much as it is > getting to the finish (meaning > we can take the less variance route most of the time).

Being that it is early going, I would raise a bit more preflop (we're out of position and players who are limping are not folding.... 'they want to see the flop!!!'... so charge them for it accordingly (typically 3x +1bb per limper, & more often 4x +1bb per limper when OOP). In this hand though I'd probably raise to 5x.

Easy fold in the circumstances. Take the pain short term and move onto the next hand.
It is easy after the event but I would have raised more pre flop. There is already 4.5 BB's in the pot befroe you bet. Raising 3.5 BB's is always going to get callers. With A's it is logical that you want one caller to build the pot but you always ran the risk here of getting too many callers resulting in your odds dropping. I would have bet pot here and been happy to take the pot if everyone had folded.

aa88wildbill said:

It's early in the tournament, and you are looking at a straight. Most days I fold, but if I am hitting good that day I would call.

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Terrible mentality to have imo, it shouldn't matter how the rest of your hands have held up in a day... each hand is it's own and you would be losing here.

beerobrian said:

In lower stakes I would call, but in this situation I would fold. Its too early to get a read on the other players.

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Why would stakes matter? There are too many draws out there screaming that you're beat. Your statement tells me that you have a hard time letting go of AA regardless of the board, but the only reason for folding is because you'd be scared of losing the $30 buyin, but you wouldn't a $3 buyin...

Poker Orifice said:

Reason for calling: villain seems like a huge fish (on a FD)... what else is limping then making a huge overbet shove here?

Reason for folding: it's a 'satellite'. Goal is not chip/stack accumulation as much as it is > getting to the finish (meaning > we can take the less variance route most of the time).

Being that it is early going, I would raise a bit more preflop (we're out of position and players who are limping are not folding.... 'they want to see the flop!!!'... so charge them for it accordingly (typically 3x +1bb per limper, & more often 4x +1bb per limper when OOP). In this hand though I'd probably raise to 5x.

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I would also raise more preflop with all of the limping going on, quite possibly would have gotten the Q6 out...

As for your reason for calling, I still don't do it. We're ~60% against a flush draw, ~75% against a straight draw, 40% against both, losing to made straights and sets(with the exception of a runner runner flush or hitting our 2-outer...). There is just way too much going on here for us to be losing, no way I call that.

steveiam said:

Thanks for the input. I knew when I called it was probably the wrong decision. As it happened he had Qs6s so he was on a draw. He hit a spade on the turn and blank on the river. It seems nobody is folding a flush draw these days.

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Take note then and next time don't fold. If villain was on a draw he was giving himself horrible odds to draw and horrible odds to get FE.

Aleksei said:

Take note then and next time don't fold. If villain was on a draw he was giving himself horrible odds to draw and horrible odds to get FE.

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Make a note yes(and keep making notes), but that one play would not be reasoning to call in the same situation next time. Sure he was giving himself horrible odds, but you had horrible odds as well.

steveiam said:

It seems nobody is folding a flush draw these days.

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Yeah, that's horrible play on his part.

I guess that's where "knowing your opponent" comes into play. See, I assumed he was a decent player, and thus he wouldn't bet in that manner. But, if he's a fish, then that throws all logic out the window.

Of course, he had a straight draw as well, so you guys were about 50/50 after the river. I hate it when people shove on a 50/50. Well, unless they're short stacked. Then it's reasonable.

Now using hindsight, your best play was to bet higher preflop. And then fold. That really is a terrible flop for AA.

Thanks for sharing.

Is the raise +1 per limper more of a cash game move ?

steveiam said:

Is the raise +1 per limper more of a cash game move ?

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yepp, cause in tournies making such huge raises is usually pot commiting.In cash we are usually deeper therefor can make this play more comfortably.
But i think that blind level and stack sizes is the major factor that dictates how much we raise in tournies.

vinylspiros said:

yepp, cause in tournies making such huge raises is usually pot commiting.In cash we are usually deeper therefor can make this play more comfortably.
But i think that blind level and stack sizes is the major factor that dictates how much we raise in tournies.

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No.
Because it's the "2nd Hand" of the satty & if we're ~100bb's deep I'm pretty sure 3x +1bb for each limper is not pot-committing.