Ace Deuce suited

Noah31

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Need some advice/help playing ace deuce suited. Please help!
 
Arjonius

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fold it almost all the time. It's not a hand anyone wins a lot with over the long run, so you're not giving up much by folding it when playing is marginal, which it usually is since it's a rather modest holding.
 
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If you can get in cheap with that hand though isn't it worth it to at least see a flop? Or is your recommendation to fold it no matter what every time?
 
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4evertilted

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Depends on position, stage of tourney and size of your stack. I agree if you can get in cheap worth seeing flop. Late position is best, would advise against calling a raise with it, better off raises with it with a larger stack in late position.
 
olliejjc16

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unless its a big multiway pot thats offering you great implied odds throw it in the muck, its more trouble than its worth
 
Mr Sandbag

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Depends on position. If you're UTG, folding is probably the best option MOST of the time. I may limp in with it on the button or cut-off seat (if the button is weak and folds a lot). If it is folded to me at the cut-off or button, I may raise. I usually won't call a raise with it, though, because there is a good chance you're up against a bigger Ace. If I have a good read on the player who raises and can dissect his post-flop play relatively easily, I'd not only call with A2s if I have position on him but probably with any two cards if there aren't limpers.

Poker is a situational game. Any two cards can be played. There is no hand that you will fold 100% of the time or even play 100% of the time in tournaments.
 
Beanfacekilla

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My $0.02

Play it only in late position. Better to play it in multiway limped pots, where pot odds are good to make the call preflop.

UTG or MP, it is not a good idea. It will get you into trouble.

The reason I think multiway pots are better:
Because if you hit a flush, or flop a draw, you will have better odds on your investment. Like to the investment to chase the nut FD, or the decision to call preflop with a trash hand like A-2 suited.

Just my opinion.

Edit: However, I am primarily a cash player. I understand there are different dynamics in tournaments. But I still believe my advice is prudent.
 
Mr Sandbag

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My $0.02

Play it only in late position. Better to play it in multiway limped pots, where pot odds are good to make the call preflop.

UTG or MP, it is not a good idea. It will get you into trouble.

The reason I think multiway pots are better:
Because if you hit a flush, or flop a draw, you will have better odds on your investment. Like to the investment to chase the nut FD, or the decision to call preflop with a trash hand like A-2 suited.

Just my opinion.

Edit: However, I am primarily a cash player. I understand there are different dynamics in tournaments. But I still believe my advice is prudent.

The OP just needs to keep in mind that in a multiway pot, he may flop a pair of Aces and be in a tough situation, especially if there is a lot of action. You'd mainly be playing A2s this way hoping to flop a flush (draw), set, straight, or two pair. Don't hesitate to throw away a pair of Aces if there is substantial action.
 
Beanfacekilla

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The OP just needs to keep in mind that in a multiway pot, he may flop a pair of Aces and be in a tough situation, especially if there is a lot of action. You'd mainly be playing A2s this way hoping to flop a flush (draw), set, straight, or two pair. Don't hesitate to throw away a pair of Aces if there is substantial action.

Exactly. Very well said.

If you (or the anyone) wants to play A-2 suited, you have to know how to range hands well. You need to be able to get away if you are beat. And it is a dicey situation with A-2s.
 
NvrBlufn

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I saw a chart in Ken Warren's book on Texas Hold'em regarding the percentage of people that have an Ace at a table. I lent the book to a friend but there are similar things on the internet that can prove the point I am going to make.

At a full table this is almost always an invariable fold. If you can limp or if you're in position to see the hand, at least you have the chance to flop the nut flush or draw to it, but the odds of catching the draw are hardly 1 in 8. The flush comes 1 in 118. Keep that in mind before you go calling some bets thinking you will flush trap anybody with your suited Ace.

As far as Ace-rag goes I do tend to value ones with the wheel redraw more than A6-A9s but I am equally likely to fold them all if I don't get any action from the flop and people are betting.

Which brings me back to Ken Warren's book and the reason we like not to play with low kickers. The most common thing that will happen on the flop is to pair one of your hole cards. If its the deuce you have bottom pair with top kicker. The hand is likely to be destroyed by the time you reach showdown, especially since you wanting to get in cheap lends you no credit to bluff/bully/represent and pairs you off with more than one opponent who are likely to pair their hands as well!

If you pair your Ace you will have no idea where you stand. Middle pair can push you off your hand so easily because they will bet hard (the way you played the hand makes them think they are good on you) and you will have no idea if they have another Ace. If they do btw you know your kicker is not going to win you the hand so you have to count on the board chopping the pot for you. These are so obviously lose-lose situations that I almost don't want to give you the chart.

But.... Here's the chart.

You have an ace, probability another player does.

# Players = Odds
2 = 12%
3 = 23%
4 = 32%
5 = 41%
6 = 50%
7 = 57%
8 = 64%
9 = 69%

My rule of thumb is not to play these hands until there are 6 or fewer players on the table. That way I can reduce the amount of time that they are likely to have been dealt an Ace.
I can also play Ax a lot more aggressively once I get to 5-handed and so I am more likely to.
 
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I rarely play A rag. If you are in late position maybe. Unless you have a really good read on your opponent. If you know your opponent has pp then you A might be good on the flop,
The ideal situation for you is to get flush over flush. Other than that suited Ace rag isn't very profitable
 
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If ur un thé but ton just limp

This is probably the worst advice you can give somebody, if your limping your showing weakness which any good player will take advantage of, however if you are on the button and there is considerable ammount of opponents you might do this as the pot odds are quite good,

However if your on the button and its folded round to you, now this is the perfect opportunity to raise it up
in a MTT your looking to steal blinds with hands like these, if it works you increase your stack by about 5-10% once antes are introduced that is, if its called you have 2 ways of winning the pot

1..... you could flop a flush, or a draw to the flush
2..... your opponent will miss the board 66% of the time, in which his hand probably isnt strong enough to carry on if you CB

again this is also based on your stack size, once you reach 20-30BB if you try and steal and fail you have probably thrown away about 6BB so when you have this ammount its a throwing away type of hand
 
Michael Paler

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About the only thing A2 suited has going for it is the nut flush (if not a st8 flush present). That's about it. A full house made is even vulnerable. A st8 loses to 67 or could even lose to 56 as A2 is the "dumb" end of a st8. Add to it that every flop with an ace on it without middle cards (6-7-8-9) could make one or even two st8/st8 draws (ace high or 5 high) and it just starts to stack up against it.

Limp in on the button? Not a good idea, imo. If someone else has limped ace rag, you might be able to use position and the strength of a preflop raise to scare them off if you both pair it. Maybe....if they had a big ace, they would have raised preflop, right?

In the blinds you are already getting a discount, so if not looking at too big a raise it is worth calling. This is the complete chart from Super System and here is the thread link; https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/absence-aces-preflop-what-can-mean-226857/
 

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Beanfacekilla

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I forgot to mention in my other post...

Don't limp much. If you are gonna play A-2 on the button in a limped pot, raise.

However, it is a garbage hand, that can only make the nuts most times with a flush.

I think anyone who plays it all the time will lose over the long term with it.

Last few posts are good in this thread.
 
Propane Goat

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A2 is poor for chasing straights just like AK is, for the simple reason that you can only make a straight in one direction. A2 is worse though because if you do get 345 on the board, you have the idiot end of the straight and you have to wonder if somebody has 76, which could very well be possible in a hand full of limpers. I would rather have T9 suited than A2 suited.
 
WeenieSVK

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A2 suited isnt that bad card... In fullring I fold it when I am on late position and there is some raise before me, but when I can limp with it (if somebody limped before me already) and see flop its good.. cause you have nuts flush possibility and also you have A.. and its definitively raise on late pos. if everybody folded to you.
 
KingCurtis

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To broad of a question. BI, tournament type, blinds, position, type of players at table, your image, etc. The list goes on forever. Give us a certain hand with details and we can help!

Some of the replies...well most of the advice in here has me shaking my head, putting my palm to my face, and repeating this action. -__-
 
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Arjonius

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Limping indicates a passive tight style that you can win with at the lowest levels because enough other players have even bigger flaws and leaks. However, that doesn't mean it's good poker.
 
NvrBlufn

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To broad of a question. BI, tournament type, blinds, position, type of players at table, your image, etc. The list goes on forever. Give us a certain hand with details and we can help!

Some of the replies...well most of the advice in here has me shaking my head, putting my palm to my face, and repeating this action. -__-

Trying to answer objectively and provide as much genuine/logical information as possible based solely on what was given. There are definitely hand specifics that would change the situation and help us refine the advice we give out here but all I know is OP asked about inner logic and deciding lines of play whenever he sees A2s.

I'll list what seems the most popular opinions so far (with brief explanation feel free to correct me if you want):

Fold this hand at a full table (like 8-9 players) because you can suspect another Ace to be in the field against you. OF COURSE you can get fancy feeling and raise large to make the stronger Ace fold but if you are called you will not know if you were successful.

Fold this hand in early position since you haven't seen anyone act and you can't call a shove or even raises OOP with this hand. For the same reason...

Don't limp with it
If you are limping in early position at a full table you are usually handing away free chips. If you are in late position and you know you want to play this hand (maybe short-handed or just feeling loose and lucky?) you DEFINITELY want to raise to see where you are and to take the lead in the hand which will win you the pot a lot more often when your opponents don't hit the flop either.

This is one of those long-term expected value propositions. I cannot see limping from late position to be a profitable line of play with A2s. I think you will lose plenty more often than you win with this strategy.

I'll also reiterate here the straight outs are very weak, even in a raised pot. I'll call raised pots with good odds with a hand like 56/67s knowing that I can stomp the wheel if it presents itself on the board or I think my opponent has the lower straight. If you limp you invite those hands that potentially destroy you. The nut flush is not a common occurrence. I can't count on it or predict it reliably so I need another way to win the hand just in case if I can.

Finally, like quoted poster suggests, use ALL the information at the table that you can. Nothing is set in stone, you will find other ways/times to play this hand if some certain situation compels you.
Gotta trust your gut and just win those hands, even if the hand is 32s and you just pretend that its an Ace.
 
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KingCurtis

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Trying to answer objectively and provide as much genuine/logical information as possible based solely on what was given. There are definitely hand specifics that would change the situation and help us refine the advice we give out here but all I know is OP asked about inner logic and deciding lines of play whenever he sees A2s.

I'll list what seems the most popular opinions so far (with brief explanation feel free to correct me if you want):

Fold this hand at a full table (like 8-9 players) because you can suspect another Ace to be in the field against you. OF COURSE you can get fancy feeling and raise large to make the stronger Ace fold but if you are called you will not know if you were successful.

Fold this hand in early position since you haven't seen anyone act and you can't call a shove or even raises OOP with this hand. For the same reason...

Don't limp with it
If you are limping in early position at a full table you are usually handing away free chips. If you are in late position and you know you want to play this hand (maybe short-handed or just feeling loose and lucky?) you DEFINITELY want to raise to see where you are and to take the lead in the hand which will win you the pot a lot more often when your opponents don't hit the flop either.

This is one of those long-term expected value propositions. I cannot see limping from late position to be a profitable line of play with A2s. I think you will lose plenty more often than you win with this strategy.

I'll also reiterate here the straight outs are very weak, even in a raised pot. I'll call raised pots with good odds with a hand like 56/67s knowing that I can stomp the wheel if it presents itself on the board or I think my opponent has the lower straight. If you limp you invite those hands that potentially destroy you. The nut flush is not a common occurrence. I can't count on it or predict it reliably so I need another way to win the hand just in case if I can.

Finally, like quoted poster suggests, use ALL the information at the table that you can. Nothing is set in stone, you will find other ways/times to play this hand if some certain situation compels you.
Gotta trust your gut and just win those hands, even if the hand is 32s and you just pretend that its an Ace.

that's better
 
Thinker_145

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Its only a decent hand when you are on the bubble and a pretty good hand when playing heads up.
 
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