J
JulieK
Rock Star
Silver Level
Since it's early, I'd make the same raise I'd make with AQ or AK. Chipping up early gives enough advantage to make it worth taking a shot here. If I flop an ace, I probably have the best hand. If I catch a jack to go with, most people will think I don't have AJ, and I might burn somebody else with 2-pair for their whole stack.
If somebody raises preflop, I let it go. Although this loses me a standard raise, it could pay off later when I get a better hand, and people think they can scare me off with a raise.
If somebody raises preflop, I let it go. Although this loses me a standard raise, it could pay off later when I get a better hand, and people think they can scare me off with a raise.
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
IMO thats flawed thinking.
By opening up your early position range, people will reraise you more.
Its all too easy to think.. well thaths good when I have AA or KK
The fact is the reason people will reraise you more is that statistically you will not have it all that often. So If you open in early position with 88+ AJs+ KQs AQo Then a savy player will throw in the occasional reraise because more than half of your range cannot take a 3bet. If you call/raise here you narrow your range greatly, making postflop easier for your opponent.
Others will call you as you are OOP for the entire hand and this is probably the biggest flaw in playing more hands in EP. You play more often with no positianal advantage over others.
The reason to play tight in EP is simply because you don't have any position on anyone. HEM is a very positional orientated game. Therefore the only hands you should choose to play OOP are ones where position is not a huge factor.
i.e. bigger pairs, AK, AQs
Even when you hold AA in early position, you are less likely to make as much money from it as if you had the same hand in late position.
ihtennis
Rock Star
Silver Level
when the blinds are that low and no one has made a raise preflop, dont even consider folding that hand. If it always gets you into trouble, at least see a flop and if nothing good comes out of the hand, then fold. If you fold hands like AJ when the blinds are that low, what hands will you play?
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Single table sng, blinds 25-50, what is that level 2 or 3?
Villain reads are very important .
If you have been sitting there thru several blind levels and you feel the table is nittish, or tight, then on occasion you can open with AJ. Don't fall in love with it tho. And unless you hit, be prepared to muck it.
And certainly don't overdo it. The trick might be that you want to convince the rest of the table that tonight is your night and you are hitting, but nobody hits 30% of their hands and the rest of the table knows this, so you can pull this off maybe 2 times per hour online, which translates to maybe twice per 10 man SnG.
But from early position you do NOT want much action with AJ, so a healthier size raise is the way to go. A good solid 4x maybe 5 even. You should consider this to be a strong Semi-bluff, from early position, but a bluff nonetheless.
In late position with this hand, using the same notion of 'occasionally' you would reraise, but normally call.
Villain reads are very important .
If you have been sitting there thru several blind levels and you feel the table is nittish, or tight, then on occasion you can open with AJ. Don't fall in love with it tho. And unless you hit, be prepared to muck it.
And certainly don't overdo it. The trick might be that you want to convince the rest of the table that tonight is your night and you are hitting, but nobody hits 30% of their hands and the rest of the table knows this, so you can pull this off maybe 2 times per hour online, which translates to maybe twice per 10 man SnG.
But from early position you do NOT want much action with AJ, so a healthier size raise is the way to go. A good solid 4x maybe 5 even. You should consider this to be a strong Semi-bluff, from early position, but a bluff nonetheless.
In late position with this hand, using the same notion of 'occasionally' you would reraise, but normally call.
kidkvno1
Sarah's Pet
Bronze Level
AJ, i am limping with, from early position. And may raise only if there are nits at the table.
I have seen some real bad players, raising with A5 from UTG1, well i got position on them i raise them, or let them fall in to a higher kicker.
lesion to Stu_Ungar, Dj11..
AJ does get you in to alot of trouble
I have seen some real bad players, raising with A5 from UTG1, well i got position on them i raise them, or let them fall in to a higher kicker.
lesion to Stu_Ungar, Dj11..
AJ does get you in to alot of trouble
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
One of the main problems with AJ, is it dosent fair all that well on an A high board.
Example 1 You raise in EP with AJ. You get 3 bet.. you call.
The board is A 9 6. You c-bet. You get reraised.. how do you feel about AJ?
Example 2. You limp in early with AJ. You get raised 5BB by the button. You call. (you havent removed AA, AK, AQ from his range)
So how do you feel about AJ of the same board of A 9 6?
Well you may say .. 'OK im behind to AA AK and AQ, but Im way ahead of all other aces'
But this isnt true. Some of the low Aces will have made 2pair.
So you are behind AA AK AQ +4 Ax hands that made 2 pair.
You tie with AJ
There are 13 Ace hands.
On the flop you are behind 5, tie with 1 and beat 7 of them
On the turn you are behind 6, tie with 1 and beat only 6 of them.
By the river, you are behind 7 of them, tie with one and beat only 5 of them.
So you are slightly ahead on the flop, break even on the turn and slightly behind on the river.
Now consider what people will do when you bet.
The higher Aces may call 1 bet assuming that your flop bet may be with a low ace or with air, so when a T or an 8 comes.. that could be 2 pair.
If they fold, then they did not have an ace.. so the fact that you had one is irrelivent.
If they play back at you, you are not far enough ahaead of their Ace range (all aces preflop.. but AK,AQ,AJ and maybe AT plus 2 pair Aces).
Infact once the betting starts, there is only one hand that you beat, an unpaired AT.. and that will probably fold if you be into it.
So in essence AJ on an A high board is really only good as a bluff catcher.
Example 1 You raise in EP with AJ. You get 3 bet.. you call.
The board is A 9 6. You c-bet. You get reraised.. how do you feel about AJ?
Example 2. You limp in early with AJ. You get raised 5BB by the button. You call. (you havent removed AA, AK, AQ from his range)
So how do you feel about AJ of the same board of A 9 6?
Well you may say .. 'OK im behind to AA AK and AQ, but Im way ahead of all other aces'
But this isnt true. Some of the low Aces will have made 2pair.
So you are behind AA AK AQ +4 Ax hands that made 2 pair.
You tie with AJ
There are 13 Ace hands.
On the flop you are behind 5, tie with 1 and beat 7 of them
On the turn you are behind 6, tie with 1 and beat only 6 of them.
By the river, you are behind 7 of them, tie with one and beat only 5 of them.
So you are slightly ahead on the flop, break even on the turn and slightly behind on the river.
Now consider what people will do when you bet.
The higher Aces may call 1 bet assuming that your flop bet may be with a low ace or with air, so when a T or an 8 comes.. that could be 2 pair.
If they fold, then they did not have an ace.. so the fact that you had one is irrelivent.
If they play back at you, you are not far enough ahaead of their Ace range (all aces preflop.. but AK,AQ,AJ and maybe AT plus 2 pair Aces).
Infact once the betting starts, there is only one hand that you beat, an unpaired AT.. and that will probably fold if you be into it.
So in essence AJ on an A high board is really only good as a bluff catcher.
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
Then there is the positional disadvantage.
So from the last post, AJ isnt all that good on an A high board.
So lets see it played in and out of position.
OOP.
You bet the flop, you get called. If you check the turn, and your opponent bets, you have to fold. If it wasnt worth a turn bet then its not worth a turn call because there may well be a river bet to call too.
So you are forced to bet into the turn, to see if your hand is good or not. Your opponent has a positional advantage over you. If he has nothing, he can fold, having not placed money in on the turn. If he has a good ace, he calls.
You are left in a difficult situation, if you bet the river and he calls, you know you are beat. If you check, you cannot call a river bet.
Its difficult to see a showdown with a hand you don't believe is great.
In position.
You hold AJ
The flop is bet, you call.. its AJ but its too good to fold to just one bet.
The turn is checked. You sense weakness!!!
The turn is bet.. Well you haven't put all that much in the pot yet and you have infomation about your opponents hand. Does he play solid?? fold.. is he a loose monkey.. maybe call.
The positional advantage is huge!!
So from the last post, AJ isnt all that good on an A high board.
So lets see it played in and out of position.
OOP.
You bet the flop, you get called. If you check the turn, and your opponent bets, you have to fold. If it wasnt worth a turn bet then its not worth a turn call because there may well be a river bet to call too.
So you are forced to bet into the turn, to see if your hand is good or not. Your opponent has a positional advantage over you. If he has nothing, he can fold, having not placed money in on the turn. If he has a good ace, he calls.
You are left in a difficult situation, if you bet the river and he calls, you know you are beat. If you check, you cannot call a river bet.
Its difficult to see a showdown with a hand you don't believe is great.
In position.
You hold AJ
The flop is bet, you call.. its AJ but its too good to fold to just one bet.
The turn is checked. You sense weakness!!!
The turn is bet.. Well you haven't put all that much in the pot yet and you have infomation about your opponents hand. Does he play solid?? fold.. is he a loose monkey.. maybe call.
The positional advantage is huge!!
5TR8 FLUSH
Legend
Platinum Level
BIG TROUBLE
I don't really like playing A J from early position because it can get you in big trouble. If it's suited I would limp or raise 3xBB and hope to take down the blinds, if it's offsuit i'll limp or fold. If i'm the small stack under 15BB I will commit my self w/ half my stack or an all in. But I normally fold A J off, and bet w/ A J suit and hope to catch a flush draw.
I don't really like playing A J from early position because it can get you in big trouble. If it's suited I would limp or raise 3xBB and hope to take down the blinds, if it's offsuit i'll limp or fold. If i'm the small stack under 15BB I will commit my self w/ half my stack or an all in. But I normally fold A J off, and bet w/ A J suit and hope to catch a flush draw.
SPCotter
Rock Star
Silver Level
Can only second what stu and dj11 have said, excellent posts from stu imo again
Just adding that I think apart from stu mentioning position here, you talk like you should be opening your range in early blinds, particularly with a hand like AJ out of position with small blinds on a full table, you will most likely only pick up small pots (at this stage near worthless) and lose big ones. I open fold this every day of the week in this situation. I believe it is better to keep super tight early on, playing premium hands only out of position, and being careful with any others I choose to play. For example my VPIP in 9man Sit n Go's at $22 ranges from 12%-33% pretty linearly through the blind levels. When a few players have been knocked out, and the blinds are a bit higher, only then does AJ in a Sit n Go become a playable hand in early position, but it's one to take with caution certainly.
Just adding that I think apart from stu mentioning position here, you talk like you should be opening your range in early blinds, particularly with a hand like AJ out of position with small blinds on a full table, you will most likely only pick up small pots (at this stage near worthless) and lose big ones. I open fold this every day of the week in this situation. I believe it is better to keep super tight early on, playing premium hands only out of position, and being careful with any others I choose to play. For example my VPIP in 9man Sit n Go's at $22 ranges from 12%-33% pretty linearly through the blind levels. When a few players have been knocked out, and the blinds are a bit higher, only then does AJ in a Sit n Go become a playable hand in early position, but it's one to take with caution certainly.
BLieve
Rock Star
Silver Level
As Dorkus would say, its not terrrrible raising or folding or its not a crimeee to raise or fold but calling would be the worst thing you could possibly do. Haha I do learn something from those open hand videos.
My reasoning is this. With 20 something BB this is not a bad time to pick up a blind and a half. Just be ready to let this hand go if someone 3 bets. If you fold, that leaves you with about 18BB and you wait for a hand to shove. However this is also assuming the blinds arent about to rise soon. 9BB might not give you much time for the right shoving hand. Im guessing half the time you take it preflop uncontested (is this a valid guestimate based on level and blinds Stu?). If it is that is good enough for me because I am disciplined enough to lay down anything not tptk.
My reasoning is this. With 20 something BB this is not a bad time to pick up a blind and a half. Just be ready to let this hand go if someone 3 bets. If you fold, that leaves you with about 18BB and you wait for a hand to shove. However this is also assuming the blinds arent about to rise soon. 9BB might not give you much time for the right shoving hand. Im guessing half the time you take it preflop uncontested (is this a valid guestimate based on level and blinds Stu?). If it is that is good enough for me because I am disciplined enough to lay down anything not tptk.
J
JulieK
Rock Star
Silver Level
You're talking position as if I don't know what it is. I was talking tournament strategy. I said specifically that early in a 9-player SNG I would play it this way. I didn't say I'd play it that way in a ring or MTT. I didn't say I'd play it that way ten hands later.
Thanks for the sentiment behind your intended lesson, but I'll stick with what I said. All things considered, I see more advantage in playing that hand, in that position, at that point in the tournament the way I said; than I see disadvantage in it.
kidkvno1
Sarah's Pet
Bronze Level
I think the same can be said for tournament strategy.... AJ killed me in a MTT well playing it in early position, i met AK... Had the best hand till i got called on my all-in 2 pair lost to a srt8, Q on the river.....
Does that help, point out why.
Does that help, point out why.
J
josh_dei8
Rock Star
Silver Level
Too me it is an easy fold early in full table sng playing from UTG. With 9 people left to act behind you, you may end up seeing 3 or 4 people in the pot come the flop. I dont want to play this hand against multiple opponentsas my odds drop too much. Later in the tourney, I would open with a raise as most of the loose donkeys are gone by then
S
shortshanks
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I agree with the votes to fold. I'd only remotely consider playing this if the table was extremely passive and noone was raising whatsoever and the cards were suited... I don't think this really ever happens though.
jdeliverer
Legend
Silver Level
jdeliverer
Legend
Silver Level
L
LizzyJ
Legend
Silver Level
After you play about 200,000 hands you learn to fold the AJ.