Is this a good bluff line or Bad Bluff line?

naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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I just want to here to reasons as to both if the bluff is good or if it's not....As for reads I had none to go by as the game just started but btw the hand was played along I really figured my bluff is more then likely gonna Work+That Weak CC line lets me know that this person was weak+that weak Donk River lead out..

So plz tell me if it's good or bad...Reason to both



pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (8 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

BB (t2500)
UTG (t2280)
UTG+1 (t2820)
MP1 (t5220)
Hero (MP2) (t2440)
CO (t2340)
Button (t2320)
SB (t2580)

Hero's M: 40.67

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4, 4
UTG bets t160, 2 folds, Hero calls t160, 4 folds

Flop: (t380) 8, 9, A (2 players)
UTG bets t240, Hero raises to t500, UTG calls t260

Turn: (t1380) 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t700, UTG calls t700

River: (t2780) J (2 players)
UTG bets t240, Hero raises to t1080 (All-In), UTG calls t680 (All-In)

Total pot: t4620

Results:
UTG had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Hero had 4, 4 (one pair, fours).
Outcome:
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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I post this not as a bad beat or anything of that nature but want to look at the hand the way I played it and if it's really Convincing that I really had a Big Hand since I played the hand Like I had a Big Hand...Or was my Story not really Believe able? If it wasn't then where did it go Wrong
 
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baudib1

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This is going to sound really harsh but

In all seriousness this is a disaster in every aspect, including your hand history. You need to show a converter to show the suits. You need to end the action with your river raise and you need to not show results.

As for the hand, fold preflop. Fold everywhere.

If people wanted to fold top pair, they wouldn't play donkaments. Don't try to make them fold top pair. bluffing with 0 equity is pretty bad but multi-street bluffs with 0 equity and no fold equity is worse.

If you have no reads, why would you even try to do this? Just fold preflop, this is pure spew on every street.

If you want to do stuff like this, and I wouldn't recommend it until you get better and have good reads on someone, float with gutshots/overs on 2-flush flops.
 
MediaBLITZ

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Looking it over I have no idea what you are doing and that screams bluff. Your betting is so heavy I have to ask myself if you have such a monster, why aren't you maximizing better value for it? You seem unwilling to give me pot odds to stick around so you must want me out of the hand - why? Hell, maybe my kings are good after all.
Your preflop flat call told me you did NOT have a big hand and then you start over betting. Why? What story were you trying to tell? The only story I can read is "Please get out of this hand so I can have the pot!".
 
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Poker Orifice

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answer: umm, I'll go with 'bad'.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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This is going to sound really harsh but

In all seriousness this is a disaster in every aspect, including your hand history. You need to show a converter to show the suits. You need to end the action with your river raise and you need to not show results.

I showed Results for the reason that I wanted to let you all see what he/she ends up calling me with that's why I showed results...As for the Converter itself I posted this exact hand in the PSO thread btw and I just copy it from there...

As for the hand, fold preflop. Fold everywhere.

I was gonna Fold it pre but I took this road because I recall someone saying that Little pairs are more then just Set mining value hands, so I really wanted to actually see if this was 1 of those times that I could actually try to implement that Idea and put it to use

If people wanted to fold top pair, they wouldn't play donkaments. Don't try to make them fold top pair. Bluffing with 0 equity is pretty bad but multi-street bluffs with 0 equity and no fold equity is worse.

If you have no reads, why would you even try to do this? Just fold preflop, this is pure spew on every street.

I agree so much with this right here, after I did the Idea , I truly ask because I really Really believe that most of the things I read over In the Forums are coming through in my head, and Once again It was a bad Decision on my part believing I could make someone in a Free Roll Out Of All Places Fold

If you want to do stuff like this, and I wouldn't recommend it until you get better and have good reads on someone, float with gutshots/overs on 2-flush flops.

The only Reason I didn't have Good Reads on the Player was because the Game was Just started, so Because of that I figured Everyone would be somewhat tighter, and there-fore Think I'm also playing tighter, but I know it sounds like a Lame Excuse But I seriously was thinking that this could really work against a player that has an Under pair, on this board....

Looking it over I have no idea what you are doing and that screams bluff. Your betting is so heavy I have to ask myself if you have such a monster, why aren't you maximizing better value for it? You seem unwilling to give me pot odds to stick around so you must want me out of the hand - why? Hell, maybe my kings are good after all.
Your preflop flat call told me you did NOT have a big hand and then you start over betting. Why? What story were you trying to tell? The only story I can read is "Please get out of this hand so I can have the pot!".

I thank you for the input you put, I mean how could I really make this work for the future? Looking over the hand I still can't see where it went wrong except for the fact that it's a free roll, I mean I don't understand really because it's the start of the game, that you wouldn't put me on the ace? You state my hand Screams Bluff but exactly how so? I'd C/R on that Flop if I had the Ace and If I didn't, I'd also bet turn with the A/x so exactly how does it scream it? I'm not doubting you, I'm simply asking

answer: umm, I'll go with 'bad'.

You and your Famous 1 liners:)
 
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baudib1

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It doesn't matter what he had, I know he's calling. This is a line that's hell-bent on showing down.

I don't think this line looks particularly bluffy though, and if you had 99 here it'd be perfect.

You're not really representing a lot though:
You can't have AK. Would you really play AQ- this strong vs. an UTG 4x open?
Trying to rep like 6 combos isn't really a good idea in MTTs.
 
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WiZZiM

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Read and re-read Baudib's posts, it might seem harsh, but he's pretty much nailed it.
 
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BlueNowhere

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You think that someone is going to be folding pocket kings in a freeroll? Also given it is a freeroll I'd say that opening bet could quite easily be Ax and not many of them fold TPWK. you called a 4x opener with low pocket pair, nearly any card that comes out is a scare card for you. What was your plan post-flop if you didn't hit your set?
 
MediaBLITZ

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Look, you took a shot on the flop and repped the ace. No problem - I've done the same - but if it didn't work on the flop what made you think that it would work on the turn when a SIX comes out????
And if it didn't work on the turn, what made you think that it would work on the river when a JACK comes out????
Since he gave your "ace" no respect did you think he was suddenly going to put you on T7 for a straight when you shoved?
You seemed to have no regard for the other player and the FACT that he DID rep a big hand. You got an idea in your head and took it to the grave paying no attention to what was going on around you. You got played.
 
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kanselau

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recless play in my opinion
fold pre
dont bluff in a free roll or low stakes without strong reads
shutdown on turn , if your oponent put you on a ace,( that you were representing )hes calling you down with Ax and if hes got a small ace at least ( maybe ) hell give you some free cards for your two outer.
seems that your oponent was playing his cards only and didnt stop to think of what you were doing
 
naruto_miu

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Look, you took a shot on the flop and repped the ace. No problem - I've done the same - but if it didn't work on the flop what made you think that it would work on the turn when a SIX comes out????
And if it didn't work on the turn, what made you think that it would work on the river when a JACK comes out????
Since he gave your "ace" no respect did you think he was suddenly going to put you on T7 for a straight when you shoved?
You seemed to have no regard for the other player and the FACT that he DID rep a big hand. You got an idea in your head and took it to the grave paying no attention to what was going on around you. You got played.


I seriously was not doubting your thinking I was merely asking for advice on my line I took in the hand, and your right, I did a Bad Move against A bad player that doesn't really care to think about what I'm representing at all, I also did a Bad Play by not slowing down at all...I thank you for your input


I'll just have to recall what I Read in this thread for the Future and that's all, Because I totally wanted to go all the way with this Bluff, and your all correct in saying this bluff is bad because it's a Free Roll for starters, and against a player that doesn't care about thinking about what I'm trying to rep at all...
 
naruto_miu

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recless play in my opinion
fold pre
dont bluff in a free roll or low stakes without strong reads
shutdown on turn , if your oponent put you on a ace,( that you were representing )hes calling you down with Ax and if hes got a small ace at least ( maybe ) hell give you some free cards for your two outer.
seems that your oponent was playing his cards only and didnt stop to think of what you were doing


Your correct in saying don't bluff in a Free Roll, and that he didn't care to stop and think of what I was Capable of Having also
 
Poker Orifice

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I'll just have to recall what I Read in this thread for the Future and that's all, Because I totally wanted to go all the way with this Bluff, and your all correct in saying this bluff is bad because it's a Free Roll for starters, and against a player that doesn't care about thinking about what I'm trying to rep at all...
Maybe I'm misinterpretting what you're saying here ^ .... but to me it seems your missing the points that baudib has made above in this thread. (as mentioned... read it & read it again).
 
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I went through a stage where I tried to do stuff like this, where I was planning on bluffing and taking it all the way. That doesn't work.

If you are planning on bluffing, first I'd rather have a better hand than 44 that never flops anything. Second, do it vs. weak ranges, not someone who raises 4x UTG!

Something like this: BTN raises, you go-and-go with a 3-bet and shove 44 on J32 board -- that's a reasonable bluff.

UTG raises and bets A-high board = not a reasonable bluff.
 
Pascal-lf

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When you are bluffing you want to rep a wide value range, not a really narrow (but very strong one).

Raising flop that small is weird, you wouldn't play an ace like that. UTG has likely got a very strong opening range, especially when he 4xs and then calls a flop raise, so what are you trying to make fold on the river when you shove with basically no F/E?
 
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also went through this stage trying to out play shit players in donkaments, " just dont work " like baudib said .
I found that playing abc poker in the early stages works best , I just stop bluffing in these donkaments , cont bets are ok depending on flop texture , semi bluffing sometimes ok stone cold bluffs worthless (witch your 44 is really as your only beating a bluff here) , I found that you can start being alittle more creative closer to the money , where most of the donks have wiped them selves out .:)
I went through a stage where I tried to do stuff like this, where I was planning on bluffing and taking it all the way. That doesn't work.

If you are planning on bluffing, first I'd rather have a better hand than 44 that never flops anything. Second, do it vs. weak ranges, not someone who raises 4x UTG!

Something like this: BTN raises, you go-and-go with a 3-bet and shove 44 on J32 board -- that's a reasonable bluff.

UTG raises and bets A-high board = not a reasonable bluff.
 
Karkus77

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its a freeroll, the guy would not lay down kings no matter what happened, bluffing in a freeroll is just a horrible idea (unless its FT you might actually get some play)
 
EvertonGirl

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When I get 4 4 I will watch the table if everyone just limps in, then I will also. Nothing wrong with paying for a cheap flop. If I don't see a 4 on the flop, I tend to fold it and wait for another hand. If I do get a 4 then I will raise all in and then cross my fingers.

I personally would of not bluffed with your hand as soon as I seen that ace, yes you were trying to fool your opposition and make him think you have at least 1 ace, but what if he had not had K K and instead he had A A, that is what I would of been thinking and would of folded knowing my hand was too weak against the top pairs
 
BlackMoth5

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Bud bluff, in my opinion. I play low pocket pairs (2's-7's) slow with a low investment/ high reward mindframe.
 
Blobweird123

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The only Reason I didn't have Good Reads on the Player was because the Game was Just started, so Because of that I figured Everyone would be somewhat tighter, and there-fore Think I'm also playing tighter, but I know it sounds like a Lame Excuse But I seriously was thinking that this could really work against a player that has an Under pair, on this board....



I thank you for the input you put, I mean how could I really make this work for the future? Looking over the hand I still can't see where it went wrong except for the fact that it's a free roll, I mean I don't understand really because it's the start of the game, that you wouldn't put me on the ace? You state my hand Screams Bluff but exactly how so? I'd C/R on that Flop if I had the Ace and If I didn't, I'd also bet turn with the A/x so exactly how does it scream it? I'm not doubting you, I'm simply asking



You and your Famous 1 liners:)


Your C/R on the flop says you had the ace? How? Personally his thinking was prolly "well if he had an A he would be flatting for fear of scaring me off of a worse hand".

First off, its a free roll. The board could have been 4 diamonds and 2 aces with an open ended straight draw and he STILL wont fold KK.

Secondly, you 'went wrong' when you called pre, everything after that got wronger and wronger. But the WORST part of this hand is the shove on the river. He proved to you already he had a hand worth calling down with. He only has 600 chips left with about 3/4 of his starting stack already in. Where's the fold equity?

And lastly, when you ask How can I make this work in the future? Don't! Just fold the hand pre and wait for a better spot. You don't HAVE to make money every time you're dealt pp's

As stated, pure spew :s:
 
Blobweird123

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dont bluff in a free roll or low stakes period

FYP

Edit: And checking the dates first would help :( Didnt realize this thread was beyond ancient!
 
needaGF

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Look, you took a shot on the flop and repped the ace. No problem - I've done the same - but if it didn't work on the flop what made you think that it would work on the turn when a SIX comes out????
And if it didn't work on the turn, what made you think that it would work on the river when a JACK comes out????
Since he gave your "ace" no respect did you think he was suddenly going to put you on T7 for a straight when you shoved?
You seemed to have no regard for the other player and the FACT that he DID rep a big hand. You got an idea in your head and took it to the grave paying no attention to what was going on around you. You got played.

Agree with you. The play on the turn and the river is not reasonable. The opponent just would not fold.
 
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