was this a bad shove?

olliejjc16

olliejjc16

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Trying to spruce up my tournament strategy so want to post the hand I went out of the Sunday Storm with to see if I made the right move. Villain is a loose aggressive player who has raised hands like qj offsuit in the same position before.


pokerstars Hand #94970191157: Tournament #709010003, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (1500/3000) - 2013/03/03 22:16:44 UTC [2013/03/03 17:16:44 ET]
Table '709010003 1319' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: edunery (65048 in chips)
Seat 2: FatTony609 (30227 in chips)
Seat 3: sasha84g (102801 in chips)
Seat 4: TaoJ (80683 in chips)
Seat 5: Nikoleras7 (94533 in chips)
Seat 6: haldor123 (3806 in chips)
Seat 7: KiZaru800 (50635 in chips)
Seat 8: koaollie (19122 in chips)
Seat 9: Adso139 (50860 in chips)
edunery: posts the ante 300
FatTony609: posts the ante 300
sasha84g: posts the ante 300
TaoJ: posts the ante 300
Nikoleras7: posts the ante 300
haldor123: posts the ante 300
KiZaru800: posts the ante 300
koaollie: posts the ante 300
Adso139: posts the ante 300
koaollie: posts small blind 1500
Adso139: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to koaollie [Ah Td]
edunery: folds
FatTony609: folds
sasha84g: folds
TaoJ: folds
Nikoleras7: raises 3000 to 6000
haldor123: folds
KiZaru800: folds
koaollie: raises 12822 to 18822 and is all-in

Should I have folded and waited for a better hand or was the shove justified?
 
olliejjc16

olliejjc16

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sorry just saw I put this post in the wrong place can a mod put it in the tournament hand analysis thread please
 
atlantafalcons0

atlantafalcons0

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Great time and place to shove this hand.

Absolutely the right play here IMO.
 
W

WiZZiM

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you should be shoving long before this point. if you are questioning this shove with around 5 bb effective, then you most definitely missed out on some shoves which would have either busted you out earlier, or built your stack up considerably more.
 
atlantafalcons0

atlantafalcons0

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you should be shoving long before this point. if you are questioning this shove with around 5 bb effective, then you most definitely missed out on some shoves which would have either busted you out earlier, or built your stack up considerably more.

I would have been in shove or fold mode way before this point as well. Probably shoving any decent hand if I got to 10 bb's.
 
olliejjc16

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ok thanks for the advice lads, what kind of hands would you be shoving lets say if i had 10 bb at this stage, what would you consider the minimum hand to shove with? would the shove be dependent on who's in the pot or should i just shove regardless?
 
atlantafalcons0

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I'd like to shove in later position when I still have some fold equity and when I have a hand that flops good. Hands like J10s and A5s are playable to me in that situation.

I don't really like shoving from early position unless I have a better hand like AK or JJ+ Of course this all depends on reads and stuff. Basically I think what Wizzim was saying was you really shouldn't ever get that low and you must have missed a few hands that could have been shoved and might not have even been called.
 
olliejjc16

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ya i understand what he means, i did try and build up my stack before but didnt get calls, had kings all in for just over 20k before this with no callers, and pocket sixes the same before that, probably because i had played so tight previously definitely agree though that i need to widen my range and not play so tight in the middle/late stage of tournaments, thanks for the advice so far!
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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Think about the kind of hands you think certain players will call you with and how your hand plays against that range. For example, T9s will generally play better against someones calling range than A4o.
When it folds round to you and you are in late position, you can shove really wide with around 10bbs, assuming you have a tight image and the players left to act aren't likely to call a lot. Sometimes, you're going to run into a big hand and lose, sometimes you'll win but most of the time you'll pick up blinds and antes which are crucial to our stack. Also, try not to be disheartened when your shoves fail and you're out. The hand here, for example, is an obvious shove, but you can still lose. In tournament poker, there is a lot of variance, you're going to have to get it in a lot and run good to make those final tables, that's just how it works.
Also, look for spots to shove over loose raises like you did here. If you know someone is opening a lot on the button or from late position, you can shove lots of hands from the blinds.
 
snklzona

snklzona

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That i have been told is one of my leaks and I am trying to fix...a friend and much better player than I told me that I was waiting to long before getting my money in as I was slowly getting blinded out...He mentioned something called M factor...any1 else ever hear of this?
 
atlantafalcons0

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Your stack
BB + SB + Antes =M
 
olliejjc16

olliejjc16

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thanks for all the help here, i've become a lot more aggressive in later stages of tournaments and playing hands i wouldnt have before this. I try and steal a lot more mid-late stages with speculative hands. I play very tight at the start of the tournament as it suits my style better and open up a lot as it goes on. I watched a Sunday Million session review which really helped my game and I've definitely noticed an improvement in my MTT finishes lately!
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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Great to hear. Post More hands :)
 
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