Was this a bad read or what??

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pokernutts

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So Im in a freeroll and this donk and hes going ALL IN like ever 5-6 hands.

Then he starts folding a lot of hands so Im thinkn maybe he has decided to play a little tighter.

He calls the BB

I have k10 in last pos, and I call the BB

the flop comes up something like 2k8

I bet 250

He goes all in.

At this point Im thinking...he probably only has k3 or k8 or something like this so I call.

He had AK!

WHAT!??

I definitely did not see that coming. In fact, If he had AK I figured he'd go all in preflop!

Was this a bad read on my part? Could I have possibly avoided this or seen this coming?
 
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MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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It was an incomplete read. You put him on the bottom of a range that was best for you. You needed to take it a step further and include Kx so it would look something like this.
AA**, AK**, KK**, KQ**, KJ**, KT*, K9, K8**, K7, K6, K5, K4, K3, K2**
88**, 22**

** You are crushed

I know, this is over simplified - point is your range was way too narrow for a flop.

And by the way - you said you thought he could have K3 or K8??? Helloo??? You got close - remember to follow through.

Don't know what stage of the tourney this was, but if early this was a bad call - ne need to risk your life on a T kicker just yet.
 
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pokernutts

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It was an incomplete read. You put him on the bottom of a range that was best for you. You needed to take it a step further and include Kx so it would look something like this.
AA**, AK**, KK**, KQ**, KJ**, KT*, K9, K8**, K7, K6, K5, K4, K3, K2**
88**, 22**

Yeah I see your point.

I guess I just figured since he had been going ALL IN very loosely with all his big hands preflop that he couldnt posibly have LIMPED in with AK.

This is why I narrowed his range.

And by the way - you said you thought he could have K3 or K8??? Helloo??? You got close - remember to follow through.


Follow through? Im not sure I understand what you mean by that.


Thanks for the feedback.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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yeah, kind of funny - the idiots who are shove crazy are the same guys who will limp in with their monsters. They think they are so tricky. When someone starts doing something out of their norm (his norm was shoving) then your spidey sense needs to go off, slow down and start asking questions. Same as when the super conservative guy all of a sudden shoves - you immediately get out of the way. Now reverse that - super aggressive guy all of a sudden is conservative - WHY?

By follow through I mean completing the opponenets entire possible range. Remember to do possible before you go to probable. You could say in this case AK is possible but not probable but never say AK is not possible.

Yeah I see your point.

I guess I just figured since he had been going ALL IN very loosely with all his big hands preflop that he couldnt posibly have LIMPED in with AK.

This is why I narrowed his range.




Follow through? Im not sure I understand what you mean by that.


Thanks for the feedback.
 
duggs

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dont limp behind with K10o the implied odds are horrible, fold or raise/shove
 
beanstalk

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Since you are entering a pot with a spewy player, you have to be ready for moves like this from him on the flop. For this reason, I wouldn't play KTo here. When he shoves this flop, he could have you crushed (sets and 2 pairs) or have mid, bottom pair, or a draw. Because you are just guessing, you would only want to call off top pair top kicker...or better. KTs could be a comfortable call if you flop a flush draw and he shoves. KTo gives you kicker trouble and barely leaves you with any draw potential (extra equity when you make your uncomfortable call to his shove with just top pair).
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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So Im in a freeroll and this donk and hes going ALL IN like ever 5-6 hands.

I have k10 in last pos, and I call the BB

calls other players donks..

limps in on the button.

calls a check shove with TPNK after putting villain on a range that beats him..

people throw around the word 'donk' and 'fish' too much nowadays.

but yah, next time just let it go.. iso > fold pre > unreg pre > limp
 
beanstalk

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The more I think about it

OP:The more I think about it, this hand just brings up a pretty standard general lesson. Against a super aggro player, I would not get in pots with him with marginal hands. Raise your good hands for value. Call with hands that have high implied odds like 44-99 and suited connectors. KT is outside of both these categories, so it's an easy fold. If you need to get tricky for balance with an aggro player, slow play strong hands or raise hands with implied odds. Don't get tricky with KTo and other dominated hands.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Looking at this again and reading between the lines -

I don't mind the KT calling a limp on the BTN - BUT you cannot be satisfied with hitting the K on the flop. You need to recogonize that after that flop you are in BIG trouble. You play that hand, NOT for a pair, but to luck into a nice broadway draw. You play that hand because you have position and know how to use it... You play that hand because you have the ability to get out even if a K does come on the flop... KT is a "trouble hand" and you flopped the trouble.

(side note: Wait a minute - you said you were in last position so we assume the button, but it says you were the first to act after the flop??? Did he check? Did you have position or not?)

KK with a T kicker is pretty damn mediocre and despite the fact you thought you had him beat you just can NOT put your whole stack out there on a medocre hand. You fold after his shove and let him think he can continue to get away with that (especially with you) and break it off in his ass later when you are in better shape.

Even if the flop came KK2 you cannot assume you have the nuts (you would not have).
 
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