5 delusions about tournament poker

VictorOd

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Hello, Cardschat. Let's talk about 5 delusions about tournament poker. I've read a translation of an article couple of months ago and I liked it. So I'll just give you some theses.

1. You need a big stack to play aggressively.
The point is that you get 2 cards and should play every hand as good as you can, again and again.

2. My short stack forced me to go all-in.
Before you go all with short stack without a monster you have to consider 2 things: fold equity and amount of dead money in the pot.

3. You have to try to win every hand, every tournament you play.
Sometimes this is right, such mentality is viable if the goal is very close. But
do not create huge pots if it's unnecessary. And pay attention to the average stack size.

4. You can't defend the BB if your stack is less than 10 blinds.
On a BB you need only about 20% equity to call min raise, so it's not that hard to defend.
I'm watching pokerstars Championship Barcelona on youtube and yesterday Andre Akkari had 5 BBs, he was patient enough and today he finished 5th (317960 euros)!

5. You can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs stack.
The point is there is no reason to risk everything if you can reach the same result with a small raise.

So, was that any helpful to you? Can you disagree or tell about other delusions about MTTs?
 
Last edited:
PHX

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1 - You can play aggresively even with a small-mid stack. You do not have to play agressively with a big stack you can play regularly and preserve your big stack.

2- When you are short stacked there situations where you normally would flat but because of your stack size you are forced to either go all in or fold common example if you flop a flush draw and have just over a pot size bet in your stack if you are deeper you would flat to a raise but because of your stack size you have to push it all in casue you cannot stick half your stack in the middle on the flop then fold on a brick turn. Better to stick it in and see both cards or maybe you get a fold on the flop. Another example would be 88 from blinds facing an open from a solid player normally you flat and see a flop but if you have like 10-15 BB you have to stick it in preflop can't flat and then have to fold to a cbet when one or two overcards hit the flop. Can't fold this hand either you do not know if you would get another hand as good before you run out of chips.

3 - You must go into the mindset of winninng every hand you play if you are a TAG player but things rarely go as you planned a bad flop or a huge bet may force you to change your plan and fold.

4 - You should not be flatting with 10 BB in either blinds just because someone does it and one torunament they lucky enough to finish high does not make the play right. Most persons on final tables have made bad plays and just get lucky.

5 - You can't raise- fold with 12 BB unless stacks are really shallow or if there is a tight player(s) on your left and your aim is to steal blinds which is what I think is what the line under point 5 is saying. Must be wary when doing this good players will notice this fast and exploit easily when I notice someone start to do this I open up my range and shove suited or unsuited connector remember if you are doing this with 12 BB and you fail doing this 3 times you loose 50% of your stack without seeing a flop and you may have won all three of those hands.
 
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The misconception that you have to establish an image of having the nuts at showdown amongst your opponents. This isn't true because, as long as you can adapt and have a read of any situation you can play an unorthodox style of poker.
 
VictorOd

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Honest said:
The misconception that you have to establish an image of having the nuts at showdown amongst your opponents. This isn't true because, as long as you can adapt and have a read of any situation you can play an unorthodox style of poker.
Click to expand...

I think it's reasonable, especially for turbo and hyper turbo tournaments.
 
D

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Not delusions

I wouldn't necessarily call these delusions, more like misconceptions. I think there is a difference whether it is super important or a minute detail in how you describe it. Anyways I think it is good to think about wanting to win every hand every time you chose to enter a pot. Often I don't think enough about how I'm going to be the one pulling the chips back to me in a hand and it will help me to practice this when I play. Thank you for the post!
 
sryulaw

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the fact is that when you are short and you are playing a FT for example, you should take into account the ICM to put everything on the table! every Fold gets you closer to making more money! a clear example was the Akkari in Barcelona! it was short practically all day, it's just watching your opponent fall before him, if he had dropped that 44 for ICM he might have won better !! Great placement these 5 items, very good to see content like this! Thanks for sharing!
 
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Thanks for the post. I often find myself to the opposite side of 2,4 and 5 when short stacked, especially the feeling I can't defend my blinds unless I go all in.
 
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You only need to eliminate 1 player to win the tourney
 
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VictorOd said:
Well, true. But I like KO tournaments a lot. It's fun and profitable.
Click to expand...

Well, yes in a ko bounty tournie you will want to ko people for sure

But in reg tournie a lot of people get the mind set that you need to knock a lot of players out to win, which is not true, tbh most of the tournies I have went really deep in I knocked out very few players
 
korneel

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What is this equity you talk about?
I have a lot of problems with what to call as the BB.
 
VictorOd

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korneel said:
What is this equity you talk about?
I have a lot of problems with what to call as the BB.
Click to expand...

Hi, I just read your question.
Just google it, I can't explain it better than Wikipedia or something like that. :)
 
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MakeUcryalot

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The advice in this post is sooo bad I have to break my not posting streak.

VictorOd said:
Hello, Cardschat. Let's talk about 5 delusions about tournament poker. I've read a translation of an article couple of months ago and I liked it. So I'll just give you some theses.

1. You need a big stack to play aggressively.
The point is that you get 2 cards and should play every hand as good as you can, again and again.

This isn't exactly a delusion, advice or really anything with any constructive value. Yes, you do play aggressively, but only in the context of the allowed actions. You do no not need a large stack to be aggressive, but you also can't be aggressive without an actual reason. When we play, we are extremely aggressive, but the aggression factor is only relevant per the situation/position/villain type. One of the most common mistakes I see is a player that thinks that they can beat math. A good player knows that you fail to connect with the flop more often than not, so you can't afford to play garbage hands ESPECIALLY short stacked, because a good player will play the flop texture/position post flop and see right through you.

2. My short stack forced me to go all-in.
Before you go all with short stack without a monster you have to consider 2 things: fold equity and amount of dead money in the pot.

Once again, not really any kind of point being made. The title really pisses me off though, considering there is an almost overwhelming case to be made for ONLY jamming or folding with less than 25 BBs in MTT poker. Fold equity and dead money are both important factors to consider when you're going to jam, but equally important factors are position, preflop action, effective stack sizes, SPR, MFD's (not really in low stakes), player type, and preferably more in depth stats like VP%, PFR%, 3/4 bet%, steal%, fold to steal%, etc. These are all important factors to consider when jamming or folding, and as is the nature of poker, the goal is to win in that spot more often than you lose. You will still lose a lot, because that is poker and the only real way to maximize your edge is to maximize the number of situations you play in by playing as many MTT's as possible.

3. You have to try to win every hand, every tournament you play.
Sometimes this is right, such mentality is viable if the goal is very close. But
do not create huge pots if it's unnecessary. And pay attention to the average stack size.

Meh that last answer tired me out, and this mainly has the same answer.

4. You can't defend the BB if your stack is less than 10 blinds.
On a BB you need only about 20% equity to call min raise, so it's not that hard to defend.

There are IMO very few situations where flatting the BB with under 10 BBs instead of jamming seems right. Maybe you can set mine and play by flop texture, but I'd much rather jam or fold most hands.

5. You can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs stack.
The point is there is no reason to risk everything if you can reach the same result with a small raise.

It's true, you can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs, its wrong.
Click to expand...
 
R

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VictorOd said:
Hello, Cardschat. Let's talk about 5 delusions about tournament poker. I've read a translation of an article couple of months ago and I liked it. So I'll just give you some theses.

1. You need a big stack to play aggressively.
The point is that you get 2 cards and should play every hand as good as you can, again and again.
Click to expand...
Not a myth... IS A DAMN MATHEMATICAL FACT!
You can regularly bully smaller stacks off of hands and if they happen to have good hand, you still are left with good stack size.

2. My short stack forced me to go all-in.
Before you go all with short stack without a monster you have to consider 2 things: fold equity and amount of dead money in the pot.
Click to expand...
Not a myth, is the truth. Short stacks needs to turn their desperation into power and hope they get lucky. This is why cash games are better than tournaments for regular income.

3. You have to try to win every hand, every tournament you play.
Sometimes this is right, such mentality is viable if the goal is very close. But
do not create huge pots if it's unnecessary. And pay attention to the average stack size.
Click to expand...
No one believes this... Anyway I agree that this is a myth if it's popular opinion but since it is not I doubt it can count as a myth.

4. You can't defend the BB if your stack is less than 10 blinds.
On a BB you need only about 20% equity to call min raise, so it's not that hard to defend.
I'm watching PokerStars Championship Barcelona on youtube and yesterday Andre Akkari had 5 BBs, he was patient enough and today he finished 5th (317960 euros)!
Click to expand...
Patience doesn't mean he defended blinds. If he did defend blinds then he was very lucky that the others consistently had no good hands to engage him with while doing so.

5. You can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs stack.
The point is there is no reason to risk everything if you can reach the same result with a small raise.
Click to expand...
You can if the bigger stacks aren't bullying you. They should be bullying you though.
So, was that any helpful to you? Can you disagree or tell about other delusions about MTTs?
Click to expand...

Unhelpful sorry to tell you.
 
bahajan

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today at the tournament for 64 of the hand came cards 72 83 53 93 all in this range not higher than 10, teach you how to play aggressive on these maps the result is one of blendi killed stack
 
KingCurtis

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MakeUcryalot said:
The advice in this post is sooo bad I have to break my not posting streak.

VictorOd said:
Hello, Cardschat. Let's talk about 5 delusions about tournament poker. I've read a translation of an article couple of months ago and I liked it. So I'll just give you some theses.

1. You need a big stack to play aggressively.
The point is that you get 2 cards and should play every hand as good as you can, again and again.

This isn't exactly a delusion, advice or really anything with any constructive value. Yes, you do play aggressively, but only in the context of the allowed actions. You do no not need a large stack to be aggressive, but you also can't be aggressive without an actual reason. When we play, we are extremely aggressive, but the aggression factor is only relevant per the situation/position/villain type. One of the most common mistakes I see is a player that thinks that they can beat math. A good player knows that you fail to connect with the flop more often than not, so you can't afford to play garbage hands ESPECIALLY short stacked, because a good player will play the flop texture/position post flop and see right through you.

2. My short stack forced me to go all-in.
Before you go all with short stack without a monster you have to consider 2 things: fold equity and amount of dead money in the pot.

Once again, not really any kind of point being made. The title really pisses me off though, considering there is an almost overwhelming case to be made for ONLY jamming or folding with less than 25 BBs in MTT poker. Fold equity and dead money are both important factors to consider when you're going to jam, but equally important factors are position, preflop action, effective stack sizes, SPR, MFD's (not really in low stakes), player type, and preferably more in depth stats like VP%, PFR%, 3/4 bet%, steal%, fold to steal%, etc. These are all important factors to consider when jamming or folding, and as is the nature of poker, the goal is to win in that spot more often than you lose. You will still lose a lot, because that is poker and the only real way to maximize your edge is to maximize the number of situations you play in by playing as many MTT's as possible.

3. You have to try to win every hand, every tournament you play.
Sometimes this is right, such mentality is viable if the goal is very close. But
do not create huge pots if it's unnecessary. And pay attention to the average stack size.

Meh that last answer tired me out, and this mainly has the same answer.

4. You can't defend the BB if your stack is less than 10 blinds.
On a BB you need only about 20% equity to call min raise, so it's not that hard to defend.

There are IMO very few situations where flatting the BB with under 10 BBs instead of jamming seems right. Maybe you can set mine and play by flop texture, but I'd much rather jam or fold most hands.

5. You can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs stack.
The point is there is no reason to risk everything if you can reach the same result with a small raise.

It's true, you can't raise-fold with under 12 BBs, its wrong.
Click to expand...


+1
Click to expand...
 
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just play tight in early levels and let it go...
 
Peppinotom

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Well, there's a truth in everything, but you can't generalize it. Big Stack, small stack, aggressive... if I have the chiplead and get 3h9d I just throw them away. I play my bigstacks very tight, sometimes using it's BIG SIZE to impress and squeeze the table or some villain in special that try to be clever and steal my BB. Your article sounds a little bit like you have to play each and every hand and I don't agree. Call as much as possible,ok, but if you see the opponents are aggressivly hunting you, wait for their mistakes. Play only your Monsterhands aggressive or If the Flop comes to your favor.
Don't throw around your chips, the others want them, too! Later in the Tournament, let's say in the prizes, I could agree better to your tips, rulez or whatever that is.
 
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