3bet light OOP

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billatx

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To my knowledge,it is suggested to use suited connectors or suited broadways to 3bet light OOP ,because they are easier to play postflop.
I disagree.I think suited cards and espesially suited broadways are harder to play postflop OOP.
a)You are going to hit a straightdraw or a flushdraw very-very seldom.What are you going to do when you have this hand?Check-raise flop and pray???
b)What are you going to do when you hit a pair?Bet flop,when most of the time you'll find yourself dominated???Or check flop tying to hit a cheap second card???
As we speak,i think nothing can be played profitably OOP,so whether waiting for a suited connector to 3bet OOP or 3betting with just a random trash hand doesn't make any differense, as neither has postflop playability OOP.
Even when you hit a pair,you find yourself in a much more dangerous situation,as you will be most probably dominated...
What do you think?:(
 
Arjonius

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You are only focusing on your own hand. What you are believably representing to the opponent also matters, as does his hand, his style, etc.

Also, the point of polarizing your range isn't for every holding to be +EV every time; it's to increase the overall profitability of the entire range. If your opponents can be sure you only 3-bet OOP with premium hands, it's much easier for them not to pay you off or to lose less than they would if they believe you can 3bet light.
 
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billatx

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You are only focusing on your own hand. What you are believably representing to the opponent also matters, as does his hand, his style, etc.

Also, the point of polarizing your range isn't for every holding to be +EV every time; it's to increase the overall profitability of the entire range. If your opponents can be sure you only 3-bet OOP with premium hands, it's much easier for them not to pay you off or to lose less than they would if they believe you can 3bet light.

Nothing usefull here
 
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WiZZiM

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I love this new guy, lol. That cracked me up...
 
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billatx

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I didn't ask how to extract value when i have a hand.I asked what to do when i don't have.Focus guys!Still nothing usefull.Just trolling...
 
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BlueNowhere

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I didn't ask how to extract value when i have a hand.I asked what to do when i don't have.Focus guys!Still nothing usefull.Just trolling...

Put it this way, I can play a lot of hands profitably OOP. You seem to be claiming that no hands can be played profitably OOP. My opinion is that hands can be played profitably OOP and I'm not really sure what sort of response you are looking for with this article.
 
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billatx

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That's what i'm asking.How can suited connectors be played profitably OOP?
a)You are going to hit a straightdraw or a flushdraw very-very seldom.What are you going to do when you have this hand?Check-raise flop and pray???
b)What are you going to do when you hit a pair?Bet flop,when most of the time you'll find yourself dominated???Or check flop trying to hit a cheap second card???
 
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BlueNowhere

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I'm going to play how I think will be best against villains range. It's impossible to say what I;m going to do in each of those scenarios without a HH of some sort to say how I would react.
 
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billatx

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SO YOU CAN'T PLAY PROFITABLY WHEN YOU 3BET LIGHT OOP WITHOUT A HUD AND SOME HH.IS THAT RIGHT?
 
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BlueNowhere

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SO YOU CAN'T PLAY PROFITABLY WHEN YOU 3BET LIGHT OOP WITHOUT A HUD AND SOME HH.IS THAT RIGHT?

No I just can't be bothered going through all the diff combos of flops in 3-bet pots and saying what I would do in each one.
 
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billatx

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Ok,but that's exactly what i need.Any help would be very much appreciated!
 
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only_bridge

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I concur. Hilarious thread.

And to OP, it depends.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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Level 1 thinking ITT.

3 bet and cbet.

if THEY (your opponent/villain) misses the board, they are going to fold.

so when you raise and they call, even though you have nothing a lot of the time.. neither will they, so you make money.

don't polarize your range when you're unaware of your opponents'.

just play solid hands OOP and minimize your losses.

understand?

example:

pokerstars - $0.16 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: $17.64
BTN: $6.73
Hero (SB): $16.00
BB: $10.84
UTG: $25.56
UTG+1: $18.82
MP: $12.67

Hero posts SB $0.08, BB posts BB $0.16

Pre Flop: ($0.24) Hero has Kh As

fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.32, BTN calls $0.32, Hero raises to $1.60, fold, CO calls $1.28, BTN calls $1.28

Flop: ($4.96, 3 players) 5s 5c 3c
Hero bets $2.72, fold, fold

Hero wins $4.74
 
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baudib1

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It depends. On a lot of things.

Let's start with stack sizes and position of raiser.
 
Demonomania

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Why even get involved OOP if your hand isn't solid? Mixing things up isn't the worst idea in long session ..but what do you honestly expect to gain from 3-betting light OOP?... other than a small pot or an unnecessary loss.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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if you fold your blinds too much then observant opponents will just open on you a lot and you lose money.

polarising ranges vs BTN/CO opens.

BTN opens light, you 3 bet they fold a lot.

in the spots they call you either want to have a monster (well duhh) or a hand that does well against their flatting range.

so say they flat AK/AQ/AJ.. you don't want A9o because you're drawing pretty thin, you want a hand like 87s so you have equity..

I think thats right?
 
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BlueNowhere

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if you fold your blinds too much then observant opponents will just open on you a lot and you lose money.

polarising ranges vs BTN/CO opens.

BTN opens light, you 3 bet they fold a lot.

in the spots they call you either want to have a monster (well duhh) or a hand that does well against their flatting range.

so say they flat AK/AQ/AJ.. you don't want A9o because you're drawing pretty thin, you want a hand like 87s so you have equity..

I think thats right?

That's what I thought but then acky seemed to say he'd rather 3-bet A9o than suited connecters.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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That's what I thought but then acky seemed to say he'd rather 3-bet A9o than suited connecters.

what?

I think thats the first thing I've disagreed with him on ever..

but then standard day for him now is like 'lol, $300 swings.. meh :rolleyes:' and I'm slowly losing my BR at 25nl so I'm probably just wrong. (you've passed me your runbad Blue :mad:)
 
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BlueNowhere

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what?

I think thats the first thing I've disagreed with him on ever..

but then standard day for him now is like 'lol, $300 swings.. meh :rolleyes:' and I'm slowly losing my BR at 25nl so I'm probably just wrong. (you've passed me your runbad Blue :mad:)

I'll try and find post now.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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..its HU.

not applicable right?

I hate it, we're merging but its pretty wide.. the opener would have to flat 3 bets SUPER wide for this to be any good imo.

I'll holla Arran about it whenever he's on..

in b4 Arran's drunken poker rant :rolleyes:
 
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