25-35bb's

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Red_Devil

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Hi guys, hope ev is well? Been working on my tourney game over the last few days by looking at what you can and can't do with various different stack sizes. 25-35bb's was interesting. Some players were advocating 3 betting regularly with this stack size (even with the intention of folding to a 4bet shove), others were saying that 3bet folding with this stack size is a huge mistake. Your sort of in no mans land with this stack size and thought it would be interesting to start a discussion on it. As well as what you can and can't do with various other stack sizes.
 
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rocksolid124

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GENERALLY, my rule of thumb is <30 bbs, I'm not 3betting with the intentions of folding to a 4bet. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but in general, I try to play this way.

31-35ish, you have JUST enough room to 3b/f in some situations.
 
tARsh

tARsh

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I start 3 betting at about this depth with a moderate proclivity to fold to a 4 bet.
It's far too situation dependent to make arbitrary statements.
But yes, I feel comfortable at this stack size relative to blinds to start playing some meta-game and running actual lines. Although my bet intentions with the 3 bet are very different with a stealing hand vs a good hand.
Granted I doubt most have any intention of 3 bet stealing in most spots.
Of course your villain has to be deep enough for a 3 bet to not amount to a mutual allin as well.
Especially when earlier on in an MTT with this many BBs you are only running into a relevant situation when you are both in the top tier of stacked remainign players given a lower BB and perhaps sans antes.
 
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hffjd2000

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With 25-35bb, you have room to maneuver. You can afford to chase. You can

bet and fold if things are getting hot infront. You can bluff, etc.

Meaning, you are not in a desperate situation.
 
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Red_Devil

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my general understanding of tournament stack sizes after a short study session is that <10bb's all in, 10-17bb's (pre ante) raise call (exceptions can be made if nits are in the blinds). (ante): shove. Facing nits in the blinds raise fold 17-22bb's great reshove stack (try target 22-35bb's stacks when making this play) 22-35bb's raise a wide range, 3bet 3x open and shove all flops. 35bb's-45bb's great to 4 bet shove and 3bet light, 50+ do whatever....

I play a lot of turbo's so 50+bb's is a rare occurrence!

Am I missing much?
 
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Red_Devil

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with 25-35bb's your sort of in no mans land, so it's prob worth taking some risks to at this stack depth to try get ourselves back around the 40bb mark. With less than 20bb's we have a clear plan, as we do with 40+ Also we can use the fact that our opponents don't expect us to 3bet/fold at this stack depth often to our advantage right?
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

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think that 25bbs plus is fine for some small ball, but beware of the villians 3b stats so you dont get into bad spots
 
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Red_Devil

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think that 25bbs plus is fine for some small ball, but beware of the villians 3b stats so you dont get into bad spots

I think so too. As with everything in poker it's player and situation dependant, but I think it's the kind of stack where we still have quite a few plays available and as mentioned before, we can exploit those players who don't think we have room to 3bet fold. Especially given the min raise sizes in the modern game! Say utg opens for 2x the bb with 25bb's effective whom we know is a decent player who knows he can open wider utg with this stack size to take down the blinds and ante's, our hud tells us he's only 3 betting 5-10% of his opening range and folding at least 90% of the time to 3bets, this is a great spot if we're 25-35bb's. Say we wake up with 76 suited on the button with 25bb's we 3 bet in position to 5bb's if he shoves we can happily fold with 20bb's and it's back to finding a resteal spot. No big loss!! But if we take down a few of these pots we're well on our way back to a decent 4bet shove stack with a ton of fold equity.
 
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