1$ MTT:Tight fold on villain's shove?

888 Poker - 1400/2800 Ante 350 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 33.65 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, hands: 2)
SB: 72.17 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
Hero (BB): 9.37 BB
UTG: 33.06 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG+1: 30.46 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 2)
MP: 39.68 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP+1: 26.38 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
CO: 11.64 BB (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 3.88, 3Bet Preflop: 2.27, Hands: 136)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has T:spade: Q:spade:

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 11.51 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold

CO wins 3.5 BB

We were all ITM.With a quick review of hand,i think i shouldn't fold this shove..i think it would be marginally +EV to call..what do you think?

LMAO. Are you kidding me? Dude, seriously, i don't want to offend you, but why the hell you have paid for your HUD, if you see no use of it? It says your opponent, who shoved has VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 3.88 after 136 hands. And you are thinking about QTs fold was too tight ? His VPIP cry to us that he is a damn rock! And his PFR says that he is actually raises preflop only premium hands. And you have still bad feelings of folding such a crap like QTs? Ah come on..

alienat3d said:

LMAO. Are you kidding me? Dude, seriously, i don't want to offend you, but why the hell you have paid for your HUD, if you see no use of it? It says your opponent, who shoved has VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 3.88 after 136 hands. And you are thinking about QTs fold was too tight ? His VPIP cry to us that he is a damn rock! And his PFR says that he is actually raises preflop only premium hands. And you have still bad feelings of folding such a crap like QTs? Ah come on..

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Well because you kinda offend me the way you answer,lets speak with arguments..Villain on CO has almost 12bbs..its silly to believe that he shove only 3.88% of a range(99+,AQs+,AKo)..a normal shove from CU with that 12bblinds effective stack would be 22.5%(22+ A2s+ A9o+ K9s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QJo J8s+ JTo T8s+ 98s)..against that range Q10suited has 42% equity..exactly as much as i need from the BB to make the call according to pot odds..so no..i am not kidding you.Answer isnt so obvious as you think..anyway thx for reply

good post rik

its great that your comment here talks about range imo, rather than specific hands you might put CO on.

CO has 13 BBs left...ITM...and at this stage of the tourney, as cut off, their range might well be wider than the previous 5% vpip suggests.

with QT sooted, which hands are you a dog to..?..AA(6 combos) KK (6) QQ (3)...you are 33:67 vs JJ...36:62 vs TT...against a better T you are 30:70...against AQ/KQ sooted you are also 30/70

...against 22-99 you have a flip. Against the bottom end of oppo's range you have a slight advantage.

You have good broadway blockers and a decent drawing hand.

with 13bbs in the CO...oppo could be shoving here with ANY (raggy) ace, any 2 broadway cards, with no bets behind...

I think both call and fold are ok here. As SB you are about to get in on a new orbit IN POSITION...you would be risking your tourney life with a call...but with only 9 bbs yourself, you would have to pick a spot this next orbit probably anyways to get value from your remaining stack, and this should be factored in to the decision.

Its marginal imo...either way...grats on getting ITM

rikoberto said:

Well because you kinda offend me the way you answer,lets speak with arguments..Villain on CO has almost 12bbs..its silly to believe that he shove only 3.88% of a range(99+,AQs+,AKo)..a normal shove from CU with that 12bblinds effective stack would be 22.5%(22+ A2s+ A9o+ K9s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QJo J8s+ JTo T8s+ 98s)..against that range Q10suited has 42% equity..exactly as much as i need from the BB to make the call according to pot odds..so no..i am not kidding you.Answer isnt so obvious as you think..anyway thx for reply

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First of all, excuse me if i did offend you with my previous answer, but i didn't mentioned to do that, honestly. Considering information you gave, it's your answer sounded funny to me, anyway maybe i overreacted it. But talking seriously your question, i hardly can imagine, that such a rock with VPIP less than 6% would suddenly kick himself in ass and start pushing that range you have listed. If he is aware of ICM at all. Usually there are no sharks or regs with stats like that. But even if i would believe that miracle story, i still thinking QTs is too weak to call all-in with. Pushing yourself - yes, but calling - no. It's my opinion.
p.s. Btw, don't be mistaken by thinking, that your opponents would thinking exactly like you. They wouldn't. It's better to figure out how would you be thinking, if you was such type of player. It brings you closer to truth.

alien...p.s. Btw, don't be mistaken by thinking, that your opponents would thinking exactly like you.

this is tip top advice imo...we often project our own thought processes erroneously onto others....

i also think i prefer the shove to the call in response to the original bet...leaving yourself with 6 bbs just ain't funny.

monkey23 said:

good post rik

its great that your comment here talks about range imo, rather than specific hands you might put CO on.

CO has 13 BBs left...ITM...and at this stage of the tourney, as cut off, their range might well be wider than the previous 5% vpip suggests.

with QT sooted, which hands are you a dog to..?..AA(6 combos) KK (6) QQ (3)...you are 33:67 vs JJ...36:62 vs TT...against a better T you are 30:70...against AQ/KQ sooted you are also 30/70

...against 22-99 you have a flip. Against the bottom end of oppo's range you have a slight advantage.

You have good broadway blockers and a decent drawing hand.

with 13bbs in the CO...oppo could be shoving here with ANY (raggy) ace, any 2 broadway cards, with no bets behind...

I think both call and fold are ok here. As SB you are about to get in on a new orbit IN POSITION...you would be risking your tourney life with a call...but with only 9 bbs yourself, you would have to pick a spot this next orbit probably anyways to get value from your remaining stack, and this should be factored in to the decision.

Its marginal imo...either way...grats on getting ITM

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Thank you very much Monkey23..you describe my hand's way of playing better than i could.We definately agree in this spot.I think both call and fold is ok..Maybe folding is slightly better in this situation but for this reason i put that hand..because call isnt out of the question also,so i wanted to know how other players see this play.
Thats how we will develop as players..asking and exchange opinions about hands that answer isnt always easy.
P.S:Alien all fine my friend..i was kinda mad with your way you answer but as i see you didnt have intention to offend me..i appreciate all opinions about my way of playing,especially these which disagree with my play..

monkey23 said:

good post rik

its great that your comment here talks about range imo, rather than specific hands you might put CO on.

CO has 13 BBs left...ITM...and at this stage of the tourney, as cut off, their range might well be wider than the previous 5% vpip suggests.

with QT sooted, which hands are you a dog to..?..AA(6 combos) KK (6) QQ (3)...you are 33:67 vs JJ...36:62 vs TT...against a better T you are 30:70...against AQ/KQ sooted you are also 30/70

...against 22-99 you have a flip. Against the bottom end of oppo's range you have a slight advantage.

You have good broadway blockers and a decent drawing hand.

with 13bbs in the CO...oppo could be shoving here with ANY (raggy) ace, any 2 broadway cards, with no bets behind...

I think both call and fold are ok here. As SB you are about to get in on a new orbit IN POSITION...you would be risking your tourney life with a call...but with only 9 bbs yourself, you would have to pick a spot this next orbit probably anyways to get value from your remaining stack, and this should be factored in to the decision.

Its marginal imo...either way...grats on getting ITM

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If the payout was very top heavy, would it have been a call then? Or stil probably a fold?

Agree with monkey23 that both fold and call are 50/50 there. The vpip/pfr stats there I assume they are so ''solid'' because he was short stacked for many hands so in reality this stats are not representative enough for our case.

We have to take into consideration that the CO player may had folded before this shove many better hands because somebody had opened before him. Shovable hands like pairs or any Ax because is +ev to opens shove them when you are near 10bbs and the first player to act preflop! He shoved from the CO, a late position, he could have any Kx any Ax or any strong Q and J or any pair. You have some blockers but still I don't know what I would have done. I believe that he didn't have a relatively very strong hand because in that case if I were him I would open in order to induce a 3bet-shove.

Since you are the short stacked player and have to act last is up to you to decide! In best case scenario is a flip, in worst case scenario you are far behind. I don't believe that you are ever ahead here.

Lastly I totally aggree again with monkey23 that is more preferable to be the aggressor that the one who defends.Interesting spot btw