Is your bet-sizing according to your equity?

After reading the thread on how to do a basic calculation on pot odds and equity, I was wondering if you guys size your bets according to this. Or is your bet sizing unrelated to your odds and equity?

Possibly stupid question but I'd just like to know.

I'm having problems with bet-sizing.

1. I have a monster hand and I made it on the flop (i.e hitting a set or straight) and the villain just hits top pair. If the pot is, for example 850, how should I bet to gain maximum value?

I know that this q is about the post flop play but just want to add that pre flop you should never sizing your bets according to your starting hand, that could be really good tell and perceptive opponent will fast take advantage of that play. So keep your pre flop bet same size for every hand, what you might do, according to Phil Gordon, is that you can bet bigger from early position and bet smaller from late position, but still it should be unrelated to the strength of your starting hand.
Now post flop, following the same logic your bet should be same or close sized whatever hand you flop and imho it should never be smaller that half of the pot size, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the pot is good thing, now it you have a note or realize that someone is a calling station you could increase your pot bet to the max that he will call if he keep calling every next hand you bet slightly more (important note, you do that only with strong hands, and if you are facing a calling station you should never try to bluf him) you should take as much money as you can and you'll do that by sizing your bet to the max that he will call, don worry if he calls your bet with draws, smart sized bet will make you money long term even if he hits his draw every now or then but even when he does he was playing against the odds and he still losing. Other thing when you flop a set or straight, you should bet more if there is a draw to a better hand then your (straight draw to your set or flush draw to your straight). Then again, there is few different scenarios of flopping a straight, top straight or bottom straight, now you see that bottom one can be easily dominated, according to Phil Gordon, it is ok to bet bigger on flop and take it right there because you can easily be dominated on later streets...
Another thing it is better to take initiative with made hand and call with draws if you have good odds to call, that only exclude monster draws like the one we talked in previous tread, but wit oesd and fd it is better to keep it smaller until you hit, with made hand like set, tptk, 2 pairs it is better to take initiative and bet accordingly to the flop and info on your opponents as we already said
Now to make this shorter if you wanna simplify things for freerols and low buyin tourneys bet between 2/3 of the pot and pot sized bet is OK IMHO

Hope this hepls

Hey DrazaFFT, thanks a lot

As mentioned, I really have a problem when it comes to bet-sizing. Especially more so when I have to combine it with position. Having read the stuff on CC as well as PSO, I know that I should bet big pre-flop when I have monster hands.

1. To push out the limpers, narrow down the field of play.

Now when it comes to flop, as you mentioned that I should bet at least more than half the pot. This should be done if I have a made-hand? Or to test my opponent's strength? And should this be done even when I am the first to act (I am assuming usually that when I get into these situations that I am the last to act)?

DrazaFFT said:

pre flop you should never sizing your bets according to your starting hand, that could be really good tell and perceptive opponent will fast take advantage of that play. So keep your pre flop bet same size for every hand, what you might do, according to Phil Gordon, is that you can bet bigger from early position and bet smaller from late position, but still it should be unrelated to the strength of your starting hand.

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It's not a good idea to size your pre-flop bets according to your hand strength. As Draza has pointed out, the main reason is that perceptive opponents can exploit this.

However, for them to do this, they must not only be aware enough to notice, they must also be capable of adapting how they play against you. At the entry levels, there are still plenty of players who can't do both these things. It's not a good idea to vary your bet sizes against these players either, but for a different reason, which is that it's a poor habit to get into.

Also, in tournament play, it's fairly common to change your opening bet size as the blinds rise relative to the stacks. This is not dependent on hand strength. So for example, you might open for 3bb when the blinds are small, but 2.5 or even less later on when they're higher.

It's not a good idea to size your pre-flop bets according to your hand strength. As Draza has pointed out, the main reason is that perceptive opponents can exploit this.

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I do agree with this and from what I've been reading and watching. Usually one should bet big if you are in late position and all other players have folded to you so that you can steal the blinds. This is also regardless of what kind of cards you have. But if someone calls then you should proceed with caution and start considering villain card range and their action on the flop right?

Also, in tournament play, it's fairly common to change your opening bet size as the blinds rise relative to the stacks. This is not dependent on hand strength. So for example, you might open for 3bb when the blinds are small, but 2.5 or even less later on when they're higher.

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This means that as the tournament gets deeper I shouldn't be raising the standard 3BB and instead should just min-raise or slightly under 3BB? Is this for stealing blinds and usually at which position?

Thank you for the help!

blakewyte said:

I do agree with this and from what I've been reading and watching. Usually one should bet big if you are in late position and all other players have folded to you so that you can steal the blinds. This is also regardless of what kind of cards you have. But if someone calls then you should proceed with caution and start considering villain card range and their action on the flop right?



This means that as the tournament gets deeper I shouldn't be raising the standard 3BB and instead should just min-raise or slightly under 3BB? Is this for stealing blinds and usually at which position?

Thank you for the help!

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Again I am like you with this, are we twins

Yea I agree with betting the same on pre-flop. I always min-raise no matter what I am holding pre, so I don't let them know I have AA when I have it. I am still learning post flop play but I tend to put 1/2 the pot when I do bet.

Ok so this post will address OP and Everton as well.

In a sense we do want to size our bets according to our equity postflop. If we are the aggressor postflop and pick up middle pair and decide to cbet I am not going to pot it.

When do we want to size larger? Mostly when we have a hand that's strong already but can easily be drawn out on. For example, we open JTo in LP, and the blinds (TAGs) both call. The pot is now 9bb. The flop comes JT9 with two flush cards. We have a strong hand here and flopped very well BUT we can easily run into scary turn/river cards. So here I would elect to bet pot or close to it. We want them to pay for their draws and one pair hands like AJ.

Now let's change it up a bit. Same scenario JTo and both blinds call. Flop comes J72 rainbow. Here I will only bet around 2/3 and if only one caller pre, maybe 1/2 pot. There just isn't much on this flop that we are worried about so at this point we aren't charging draws so much as trying to keep in smaller pocket pairs that will peel one off.

As for Everton, you need to learn to change your bet sizing according to board texture and your opponents ranges. Just saying whenever we bet, we tend to bet 1/2 pot just has no meaning or reasoning behind it. We want a reason for betting the sizes we bet. Same with our cbet bluffs. Depending on the opponent (if they have high fold to cbet %) I will opt for half pot bet to take it down. If we start to realize they like calling here too much, we try 2/3 and so on. So go to 2nl if you're playing above this limit and experiment on what works and what doesn't.

Also in cash games I think its best to 3x from any position. Some will say to min raise from EP and 3x from LP/SB. In 6max I just can't agree with this. In FR I can see it being useful to add more hands to our EP range for cheaper. edit: We can size bigger depending on bad opponents to our left that are calling off with any two cards preflop. We hold AA in SB and BB is a whale and calls 5bb opens regularly, we should go ahead and open 5bb. If they are willing to call 10bb opens regularly, make it 10bb etc.

Geez this is turning into a novel. Last point: Back to OP. In tournaments generally early on it's fine to open 3bb from any position but once the average stack gets to around 50bb, I will start 2.7x, then when stacks get shallower, I will go 2.5, then 2.3 and finally when average stacks are sitting around 20-30bbs I will open 2bb for the remainder of the tournament. UNLESS you have a whale to your left that will call off large bets. Then I will open larger with premium hands QQ+ AKs w/e.

Hope this post helps out a bit. I'm on no sleep so if it's actually a mess let me know and I'll go into more depth.

Again I am like you with this, are we twins

Yea I agree with betting the same on pre-flop. I always min-raise no matter what I am holding pre, so I don't let them know I have AA when I have it. I am still learning post flop play but I tend to put 1/2 the pot when I do bet.

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Lol! So it's a great thing that we're both learning and picking up new things together to help improve our play

For Blobweird123:

Firstly, thank you for that insight.

To add-on as well. The more callers there are pre-flop, should I be betting more to push them out if I hit middle pair? This is based on both scenarios that you gave.

the wetter the board the more you need to size your bets for not to be drawn out on....and if the villian calls you down and is getting the wrong odds to chase his flush/straight draw then you gain and he losses overall, even if he does hit his hand by the river.......if its a dry board and you dont think that villian has a drawing hand and your hand is good enough to bet then make it 1/2....put villians on ranges and assess it with the texture of the board and bet according to your reads....make them pay and give them good odds if you are way ahead so that you are not over pricing things for value........unless they are a spewbox then you can pot it on every street coz you know he will call lol

blakewyte said:

Lol! So it's a great thing that we're both learning and picking up new things together to help improve our play

For Blobweird123:

Firstly, thank you for that insight.

To add-on as well. The more callers there are pre-flop, should I be betting more to push them out if I hit middle pair? This is based on both scenarios that you gave.

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Lets say scenario 1 we have AT then I would just check behind and hope we pick up more equity on the turn because our hand really isn't that strong and that board hits their ranges hard (flush draws, pair+straight draw combos etc.). If the turn bricks I might peel a smaller bet to see if they check the river.

Edit: now you can see why position is sooo important. We have the control to check and get a free turn card here whereas if we opened cutoff and button calls, he is prone to betting and we have to sigh weakly check/fold on scary flops.

Hand 2 lets say we have 99, I'm betting 2/3 here all day hoping for folds since really only Jx and overs are gonna call.

So basically with weaker middle pair hands, the more people in the pot on a drawy board the more I'm inclined to just peel to a 1/2 pot or less donk bet (if they do) or check behind and fold turns that don't improve our hand.

Blobweird123 said:

As for Everton, you need to learn to change your bet sizing according to board texture and your opponents ranges. Just saying whenever we bet, we tend to bet 1/2 pot just has no meaning or reasoning behind it. We want a reason for betting the sizes we bet. Same with our cbet bluffs. Depending on the opponent (if they have high fold to cbet %) I will opt for half pot bet to take it down. If we start to realize they like calling here too much, we try 2/3 and so on. So go to 2nl if you're playing above this limit and experiment on what works and what doesn't.

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Thanks for the helpful information, I will take this on board. The only reason I have been only betting half the pot is because I was watching Daniel Negreanu on youtube talking about small ball and how he said about pre, either betting 2.5/3x and not to bet 5x. He went on to say about betting half the pot as there is no reason to bet higher as you want to keep the pot small. I understand with what you said about betting close to pot as you are not giving them good pot odds to call their draw. I play more freerolls than anything but when I do play cash games I keep it at 2nl. I'm stupid but I am not that stupid I have a good BRM

EvertonGirl said:

Thanks for the helpful information, I will take this on board. The only reason I have been only betting half the pot is because I was watching Daniel Negreanu on youtube talking about small ball and how he said about pre, either betting 2.5/3x and not to bet 5x. He went on to say about betting half the pot as there is no reason to bet higher as you want to keep the pot small. I understand with what you said about betting close to pot as you are not giving them good pot odds to call their draw. I play more freerolls than anything but when I do play cash games I keep it at 2nl. I'm stupid but I am not that stupid I have a good BRM

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Yeah that's always been his style but he's more geared toward tournies and personally small ball won't allow you to crush at a high winrate unless your smashing every flop you see. As for the 2nl comment I didn't mean it like that lol. For all I know you have $300 and you're playing 10nl in which case you'd be better off experimenting at a lower level

Blobweird123 said:

Yeah that's always been his style but he's more geared toward tournies and personally small ball won't allow you to crush at a high winrate unless your smashing every flop you see. As for the 2nl comment I didn't mean it like that lol. For all I know you have $300 and you're playing 10nl in which case you'd be better off experimenting at a lower level

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Lol I wish I had $300 I have $32 which I have won through playing freerolls. Yea I mostly play tournaments too that's why I looked into the small ball hoping to start to play like Dan the man

I didn't think to change the way I play when I first started to play a 9 handed 2nl game so I was lucky to get a profit out of it. Would be ok to use the small ball playing SnG 180 man?

AlfieAA said:

sarah STOP min raising pre.......2.5 it

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Wow can't believe I missed this post!

I have STOPPED min-raising in the early stages of the tournament

EvertonGirl said:

Lol I wish I had $300 I have $32 which I have won through playing freerolls. Yea I mostly play tournaments too that's why I looked into the small ball hoping to start to play like Dan the man

I didn't think to change the way I play when I first started to play a 9 handed 2nl game so I was lucky to get a profit out of it. Would be ok to use the small ball playing SnG 180 man?

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Eh sure it can work but for me when I have a hand that is ahead of most of villains range I'm going to play it aggressively. We don't want just mincash right? We want to win! And its hard when blinds get big to win when playing small ball.

Blobweird123 said:

Eh sure it can work but for me when I have a hand that is ahead of most of villains range I'm going to play it aggressively. We don't want just mincash right? We want to win! And its hard when blinds get big to win when playing small ball.

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Yep that's true

Agree with most post. Equity and odds are used for calling/trapping in my opinion bet sizing depends mainly on table dynamics and player reads.

When I say player reads I mean what will fold possible better hands when bluffing and semi bluffing and what will get worse hands to call or better yet induce raise. All depends on the table, the player and your image at the table. I keep my opening pretty standard at 2.5-3bb. 10%limp 5% raise 4-5bb. That's cash tournament contain more variables.