Can you say "Pot-Committed"?

If you have a small stack, before you make a bet, you need to ask yourself, "Am I willing to go all-in if I get raised?" And sometimes not make that bet, if the answer is no. And, if the answer is yes, maybe just go all-in in the first place. With 400 of his 470 chips already in this pot, I believe jaded-ed was pot-committed, because what can he accomplish with 70 chips remaining? He had more chance of getting lucky and winning the pot of 1070, than he had of turning 70 chips into that much on following hands.

Also, perhaps if he had gone all-in on the river, instead of just betting 150, he may have taken down the pot. Probably his best chance to win the pot was, when he raised after the flop, had he gone all-in then. But, if he wasn't willing to go all-in with the cards he had, he probably should not have bet at all, with his small stack.

pokerstars Game #25800790929: Tournament #146776020, $0.10+$0.00 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2009/03/10 0:41:00 MT [2009/03/10 2:41:00 ET]
Table '146776020 40' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Folddatcrap (2470 in chips)
Seat 2: Jordah123 (1380 in chips)
Seat 3: Abruzzi08 (1900 in chips)
Seat 4: tendulkar007 (5045 in chips)
Seat 5: HTAldridge (1905 in chips)
Seat 6: Stinkys21 (1360 in chips)
Seat 7: slim375 (3080 in chips)
Seat 8: jaided-ed (470 in chips)
Seat 9: GDRileyx (1440 in chips)
GDRileyx: posts small blind 25
Folddatcrap: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GDRileyx [8d 4h]
Jordah123: folds
Abruzzi08: folds
tendulkar007: folds
HTAldridge: folds
Stinkys21: folds
slim375: folds
jaided-ed: calls 50
GDRileyx: calls 25
Folddatcrap: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c 6d 8s]
GDRileyx: bets 100
Folddatcrap: folds
jaided-ed: raises 100 to 200
GDRileyx: calls 100
*** TURN *** [7c 6d 8s] [Tc]
GDRileyx: checks
jaided-ed: bets 150
GDRileyx: raises 150 to 300
jaided-ed: folds
Uncalled bet (150) returned to GDRileyx
GDRileyx collected 850 from pot
GDRileyx: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 850 | Rake 0
Board [7c 6d 8s Tc]
Seat 1: Folddatcrap (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Jordah123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Abruzzi08 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: tendulkar007 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: HTAldridge folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Stinkys21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: slim375 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: jaided-ed (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 9: GDRileyx (small blind) collected (850)

This is another example of be aware of stack sizes at the table before you go bluffing people. I have no idea what that guy was trying to accomplish but /agree with your statement.

Haha. Sometimes if you are absolutely certain you're beat you should just get out with a small stack and hope for some extreme luck. It's happened to all of us.

But, agreed, I don't see myself laying down 9/10ths of my chips and folding.

i had a similar thing today in a little cash game ,basically me and opponent after a raising war looked down at a board of a,k,q,j,10, rainbow ,and he folded on the river !!!!! it was a cash game, so its not like he was in an mtt and had to leave early so he donked off his chips on purpose! he was just ....a bit slow perhaps.

He defiantly played this hand badly.

However the call in the SB with 84o is very bad too. Either raise it or fold.

drew12 said:

I never get pot commited it doenst matter if its to call 10 more chips if your beat your beat and you got to let it go.

Click to expand...

Thats not a good way to play. It assumes that noone ever bluffs. It also means that when you raise it ALWAYS means you have a great hand.. hence people will not pay you off.

Pot commitment shouldn't be something that you suddenly realize has happened half way through the hand. Instead a hand should be played to some kind of plan.. thus if you find yourself all in by the river.. you feel that there is still a chance that you are ahead, and if not, the hand was still played as you intended.

While I agree that's a call with just about anything, your premise is a bit off imo. Let's say you bluff and put like 500 of your last 600 chips in the pot. That may look stronger than a straight shove to a certain opponent. You are certainly pot committed and should call a shove, but just because a bet pot commits you does not mean you should not make it if you think it's the best play available.

Also I know you didn't ask for strat advice but your preflop call is not a very good one long-term. It's just a fold imo but a case could be made for raising.

Similarly, the button's call with <10 BBs left is pretty terrible here if he's going to fold postflop.

Another point on pot committment though is note that on the river you are never committed with a given stack. If you have a read that you are beat 100% of the time you can make a fold with 1 chip behind. But on the turn like this no matter what he had he has to have some equity against your range and obviously he should be stacking here. But then again you shouldn't complain, because when he makes mistakes like this you're the one who benefits .

First off, it's a Stars dimer. No way to ever figure out the whys and hows someone in a dimer makes one play or another. It's also level III, so it's early in the tourney.

As Drew said, beat is beat. After the fold, he still has 1BB+change and nearly a full orbit blind-free. It has the appearance of villain looking for a miracle card that didn't hit - maybe pkt 2's or 3's ... ? There are still the 'chip and a chair' believers - I'm one of them.

Pot committed is in the eye of the player. I'm never pot committed to a hand I realize I cannot win.

What is the point of posting this in the 'learning thread' and playing a hand like 84o in the sb oop. That just about breaks every rule in the book. The learning thread is all about promoting good play, talking theory to beginners etc etc. Apart from the pot committed part of the discussion, this is so bad on so many levels. I'm sure you have a much better hand in your database that you can use as a better aide for this discussion.

Serioulsy how many times have you lost **** loads of $$$ playing like this from the sb?

This should be in the BBV section imo!

Fold pre-flop please.
Don't play hands like that at this time at the game. Your opponents will call you anyway...

That pre-flop call was 5-1 pot odds against 3 players with random hands. The button would have raised with a good hand. In a .10 SNG there is no way the button would have folded 2-3 or 2-7, with no previous callers. He's either limping with a bad hand or slow-playing a great hand. I'm not going to raise to find out which, when I can see a flop cheap.

If somebody in early position was in, I might have folded it.

I don't keep a database, I posted that hand because when it occurred, it seemed like a good example of a bad mistake.

I have no problem with my play of the hand, and I still think the guy was pot-committed and should have called to see the river, unless he was betting total air. In which case, it's a different mistake.

Even if he was betting total air, he probably should have called. He has a better chance of getting a nine and a split pot than he has of making anything happen with 70 chips remaining.

*** FLOP *** [7c 6d 8s]
GDRileyx: bets 100
Folddatcrap: folds
jaided-ed: raises 100 to 200
GDRileyx: calls 100

If I was in the hand with 84o, I think I would have put him all in right then, or folded.


If I was jaided-ed, I might have limped in on the button (one of my bad habits), but short stacked he should have folded the flop if he didnt hit it. He probably got short stacked chaseing to begin with.(Another one of my bad habits)

could be a newbie playing?

Like earlier when I had to moved in from the button.
I had 1080. Blinds 400/800 a75.
The SB folds. And the BB folds.

I'll take it obviously.