The Wrong Effort

Im not sure how to start this with out sounding like a jerk
Why is it when I or other players look to improve and gain knowledge it always seems to be taking the long way arround what should be the straight way ? I mean why do I need to know players stragtegies and all this extra math and how to make these moves that are fads ?

Isnt the best strategy for the #1 goal is to know what the other player is holding and get that down as fast as possible ? Shouldnt I be working on that as much as possible to get that in my back pocket and work arround that ?

I see and read on how much players and teachers of poker, put up blocks in their minds on not doing things they should try to learn. Why would some one want to do that ? could it be they would lose extra money if players didnt need hand analysis, were able to put players on hands, learn how to play in a way they could find and fix their mistakes quickly ?

Just a post to air out what I am thinking at this time ( 2 cents worth)

Good Skill at the tables

Maybe because not everyone is able to learn and develop. Should be the desire and motivation, and to overcome all the difficulties of real life (they are everywhere)

gus201 said:

Im not sure how to start this with out sounding like a jerk
Why is it when I or other players look to improve and gain knowledge it always seems to be taking the long way arround what should be the straight way ? I mean why do I need to know players stragtegies and all this extra math and how to make these moves that are fads ?

Isnt the best strategy for the #1 goal is to know what the other player is holding and get that down as fast as possible ? Shouldnt I be working on that as much as possible to get that in my back pocket and work arround that ?

I see and read on how much players and teachers of poker, put up blocks in their minds on not doing things they should try to learn. Why would some one want to do that ? could it be they would lose extra money if players didnt need hand analysis, were able to put players on hands, learn how to play in a way they could find and fix their mistakes quickly ?

Just a post to air out what I am thinking at this time ( 2 cents worth)

Good Skill at the tables

Click to expand...

Hi Gus.

I understand your frustration but will say that whatever you learn about poker there is one thing that does take time, that is experience. Whether you play on-line or live, or both, that experience is invaluable. I know that sounds obvious and a bit condesending, I don't mean it to.

Over time you will find that you develop hand reading skills with other skills. I would say also it is very important to develop your own playing style and learn to adjust that, dependant on how your opposition plays. These fads you mention are also important because they come and go may give you the edge in time when perhaps you are playing a loose aggressive player and learn to re-raise them or whatever it may be. Thats enough from me but I hope I have helped you understand a bit more............................Gl...................

Learning how to determine what your opponents are holding is indeed a very valuable skill. However, it's definitely not simple. For instance, you have to adjust your ranging because different people play differently, because some are able to change gears, because of situational factors, etc. So, it's not the easiest skill to become decent at, never mind really good. It takes time and experience even if you have natural ability and/or you work at it.

So, I'd say that for most beginners, it's more productive to put more emphasis on other elements of poker that can be improved more easily and/or rapidly. Note that I'm not saying that ranging opponents should be ignored completely, just not to make it a top priority while your game is still at a stage where you can gain more overall by emphasizing other things.

You are for sure goign to mis read I did yesterday a big beat had second in chips and lost 2/3 rds of stack so this smart alec called me an idiot explaining how he didnt rebuy blah blah blah add on was down to 300 chips what a great player he was and he finished 40th out of money by 20 spots where I kept it together and got fifth .

I read a guy wrong and remembering even bad players can catch kk is a lesson haha. So anyway i play more my hand and watch betting tendencies more than trying to figure their hand. If always aggressive and show weakness they usually are problem is that is not always true like reading what you think they have

Just a question . . .
But doesn't knowing what cards the oppenent is holding require you to have those other skills (know player strategy, what range of cards they play).

I would like to thank you all for answering.

Marc your are absolutely right , experience takes time and you need that to improve.


thetick-- yes we wont get every thing right all the time but getting things right when it get tough or stacks are flying helps.

BullWink --- Yes it helps to know all that but reading around not just here but other places too they all promote to not put players on a hand but just a range. they also promote going after coin flips and hope they can win at that. what happens if when you go after coin flips your taken away your skill and replacing it with luck . if they lose the hand and or get knocked out they say its variance or they got unlucky. When most of the time they ran their so called coin flips at the wrong time against the wrong player.

Thank you again for your answers

with more experience I am more convinced that a bigger factor is luck in this f* game

LOL Yes in poker things tend to look not quite what one would think. The more experience and understanding of how and why with an open mind you can now understand other things that one may not have noticed before .

When I learned how to play I was able to recognise things but had no clue of understanding the real why and how come part until my trainer went over them with me. the game has so much skill in it and can get pretty indepth. look at as levels and try to find out what level you are on compaired to what level the other players at the table are on. Its Funny I use levels when in reality we cant even state what level we are on just whether our level of knowledge is better then the others at the table.

you can put people on higher cards if raise etc... but got to be careful i follow pots if am hitting like two pair or hitting what I generally consider rubbish hands lol I will play anything and I will raise with 8-10 or 3-5 suited at times.

I try to be unpredictable also will call some raises with hands most wouldnt at times. Depends if am hitting etc.. How I feel that day etc..

Now I will lay down easily though hands if had say aq and flop is jack 8 7 etc.. I just dont feel that is my hand usually the straight hits or a flush.

What is annoying to me is to watch what consider rubbish players and encounter them in all levels playing 2-6 suited and acting like hit a lotto to chase a flush with aj 8 on board etc.. I run into people calling that down major raises even if they will be all in etc..

These players are pretty amazing and honestly I usually am in the running in freerolls etc.. so see who makes it who doesnt and this same group of people do not make it lol.

So those are the people the chasers the weak players the rubbish playing for flushes garbage players I want to identify them so can fold at times if cards are not holding off. Just dont want to mix it up the poker gods take care of them and for them to take me out is or can be frustrating.

So I want to identify the persons game are they a bingo player do they play every hand. Do they call down can they be bluffed etc.. Are they weak do they show weakness in betting patterns.

Is a lot more to identify than what you believe they are holding.

I limp I mix it up I will slow play fast play depends on how the cards are turning. I change timing of bets for responses etc.. So is a lot more involved I can put a lot of people on tilt. I find it funny to watch when I do it.

Also in a tourney room playing tight ever notice someone all ins and room opens up lol. If got a lot of bad players youd be shocked.

I wonder on some players last night 6 th guy into a pot all in with king two offsuit wth was he thinking 6 all ins this is in second hour of a tourney lol.

Give up did he just say ok I suck and need to quit lol? So yeah is a lot more important to my game than identifying just what these guys play. Is more bad players imho than good. So yep some of the bad ones get lucky but I need to identify them especially if late in events that weakness they have can be exploited at the right times.

If you have the nuts, you don't have to read other players' cards.