Winning when slow-playing big hands?

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scubed

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I have not performed deep analysis of my poker records to determine "if" I am successful winning bigger pots when I slow-play. That said, I personally can remember a ton of times that slow-playing a big hand got me into trouble, sometimes got me pot committed and busted out!

Do you feel that you are more successful winning big pots by slow-playing big hands? Do you have any data (that you are willing to share) about your poker hands to back up your feeling?
 
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scubed

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What qualifies as a big hand?

Good question! A "big hand" is way to subjective. For the sake of this post lets say...

  • we flop top two pair
  • we are out of position to 1 other player
  • both players have even stacks
 
kratos

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I don't like slow play because it can be dangerous.If only I am nuts maybe I practice slow play but It's better not to give chances for the opponents to see turn and river so a heavy bet is better than only check trying to trap.
 
zwbb

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Even the best poker players have lost gaming sessions. Therefore, waiting for a win every time you play is an error. Your goal should be to play at the peak of your abilities in every game session. If you do, improving your skills, cards and victories will come to you.
Many players mistakenly judge their poker playing skill, based on the outcome of each session. Your goal should be to use the maximum opportunities in each game and every time. And the closer you get to this, the better the results will be.
 
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NickNation

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there is definitely a time and a place for the slowroll but i can remember more times where its bitten me in the ass than really working well.


i find its best to slowroll the right, aggresive player. the key is to spend the time finding the right player, then the right spot... than hoping he doesnt hit lol
 
PuMa8818

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Slowly play only with the absolute nuts. If there is an opinion that the opponent has a flush (straight) draw, then he should be forced to pay it properly so that he sees the next card
 
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CuddlyBobcat30

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There's a Difference Between Slow-Playing, Under Repping, and Trapping

A lot of times people lose with these bigger hands by slowplaying with them thinking that they're trapping. Meanwhile, all you're doing is actually just giving your opponent better Pot/Implied odds to beat you.

Something to ask yourself when playing a monster hand: "What hands would I bluff with here?"


If you can't think of any then you aren't bluffing enough. Or if you can think of some hands you could possibly be bluffing with -- why not play your big hands the same as your bluff ?


Often times people slow play because they want to trap their opponents into doing all the betting. Also, they slow play because they're tired of people folding whenever they make a large raise. People wouldn't fold whenever you make a raise or large bet if they think there's a chance you're bluffing.


Example: 3 - betting


You see this a lot in live games, especially 1/2 or 1/3. Certain players do not 3 bet preflop without a premium hands. If I open from lojack with suited connectors or a low/middle pocket pair and someone in the CO who usually just calls decides to 3-bet me, I know they're strong, so I can let go of my weaker holdings. On top of that, I know that if I call with marginal holdings and smash the flop, I might be able to take their stack.


It isn't like I'm ever thinking -"Well they didn't 3-bet preflop or raise my bet on the flop, he must be calling me down with nothing to go for an insane bluff on the river"


However, if you have the potential to 3-bet light then your opponent doesn't know whether or not you have the goods. If I occasionally throw 3-bets into my range such as suited wheel aces or suited connectors this not only keeps my opponents guessing, but it also gives me an opportunity to get information about their hand strength without necessarily giving much information away. On top of that, if they do call with a strong hand, I still will have some equity against them heading towards the flop.


So if you mix bluffs into your ranges, you don't need to slow play.
For example, I always open for 3BB (when I'm the first to enter the pot) from any position except the SB. My UTG range is fairly tight most of the time; some of the time though I mix in hands such as J9s or 9Ts. This way it keeps my range balanced. It's not so that every time I open a hand UTG that I have TT+ or AK.


I hope any of my ramblings helped someone. Let me know what you think. :icon_prof
 
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felipeanicio

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My strategy is to try to extract the maximum of chips from the opponent, it is risky, but over time it is profitable.


 
malakata19

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In my experience slow play was to lost a lot of hands and pots. Now players usually play really strong with a top pairs like AA KK QQ just because others players want to see with the flop with almost any cards. No a good experiencie so far. Good luck in tables !!!
 
Shrops

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Not sure

I don't like to slow play any of my big starting hands because I don't like trapping myself and that is what seem to happen when I use to slow play. Good luck !
 
1Player

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I wouldn't slow play with two pair. I do with sets but it makes me nervous.
 
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I have been sucked out slow playing so many times that I go all in when I think
I have the nuts. But when you play at poker stars,
getting sucked out happens all the time.
 
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It depends on the board for me. If I flop a set on a draw heavy board i'm applying pressure for sure. I've been suck out on enough, make them pay for the next card at the very least unless you have a very strong hand on the flop.
 
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Luccasdsp

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I believe that playing big pots with good cards you will win a lot of chips but this will not be enough for you to win the tournament, so it is very import to know the time to play with smaller letters just to win some chips.
 
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TpaEnforcement

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I've slow played a lot of hands and so many times it back fires on me cause I have no luck. but I tournament I won on AP years ago I had luck and my big hands seem to hold up which was great only a couple of hundreds I won but it was good.
 
1Player

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So if you mix bluffs into your ranges, you don't need to slow play.
For example, I always open for 3BB (when I'm the first to enter the pot) from any position except the SB. My UTG range is fairly tight most of the time; some of the time though I mix in hands such as J9s or 9Ts. This way it keeps my range balanced. It's not so that every time I open a hand UTG that I have TT+ or AK.


I hope any of my ramblings helped someone. Let me know what you think. :icon_prof


Completely and utterly useless to me. I play with level 0 thinkers.:D
 
kratos

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A lot of times people lose with these bigger hands by slowplaying with them thinking that they're trapping. Meanwhile, all you're doing is actually just giving your opponent better Pot/Implied Odds to beat you.

Something to ask yourself when playing a monster hand: "What hands would I bluff with here?"


If you can't think of any then you aren't bluffing enough. Or if you can think of some hands you could possibly be bluffing with -- why not play your big hands the same as your bluff ?


Often times people slow play because they want to trap their opponents into doing all the betting. Also, they slow play because they're tired of people folding whenever they make a large raise. People wouldn't fold whenever you make a raise or large bet if they think there's a chance you're bluffing.


Example: 3 - betting


You see this a lot in live games, especially 1/2 or 1/3. Certain players do not 3 bet preflop without a premium hands. If I open from lojack with suited connectors or a low/middle pocket pair and someone in the CO who usually just calls decides to 3-bet me, I know they're strong, so I can let go of my weaker holdings. On top of that, I know that if I call with marginal holdings and smash the flop, I might be able to take their stack.


It isn't like I'm ever thinking -"Well they didn't 3-bet preflop or raise my bet on the flop, he must be calling me down with nothing to go for an insane bluff on the river"


However, if you have the potential to 3-bet light then your opponent doesn't know whether or not you have the goods. If I occasionally throw 3-bets into my range such as suited wheel aces or suited connectors this not only keeps my opponents guessing, but it also gives me an opportunity to get information about their hand strength without necessarily giving much information away. On top of that, if they do call with a strong hand, I still will have some equity against them heading towards the flop.


So if you mix bluffs into your ranges, you don't need to slow play.
For example, I always open for 3BB (when I'm the first to enter the pot) from any position except the SB. My UTG range is fairly tight most of the time; some of the time though I mix in hands such as J9s or 9Ts. This way it keeps my range balanced. It's not so that every time I open a hand UTG that I have TT+ or AK.


I hope any of my ramblings helped someone. Let me know what you think. :icon_prof
Well done! Mate, this post is really helpfull.Important informations from you.
 
wsbar

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I can be criticized the more I prefer a crack in A, than simply hum to do. Making slow plays with big hands can be a weak move in poker for some players, but in my opinion the best poker players are those who do not have that type of hand when the board is not favored.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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People remember the bad beats more than the times where slow-playing paid off for them.

There's something painful about losing and having to think 'if only I had raised... bet... etc.'.

There is nothing inherently bad about slowplaying and adding in some creativity/deception will keep your opponents guessing.

Slowplaying is often right when you nail the flop so hard there's nothing left for your opponent to call you with - you actually have little choice but to let them catch up some before trying to get paid.

Best of luck!
 
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Slowplaying is often right when you nail the flop so hard there's nothing left for your opponent to call you with - you actually have little choice but to let them catch up some before trying to get paid.

I agree and it is easy to see that slow-playing when you nail the flop hard is probably the most profitable. For example, when flopping the nut flush or a straight it is easy to think about deception to win a bigger pot.

What about the less than "nailed" flops, but still good - for example two pair. What are your thoughts on slow-playing two pair when the board is not scary (i.e. rainbow with no draws)?
 
DougPkrMonsta

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To be fair 2 pair is a monster too (you will only flop 2 pair about 2% of the time). A lot depends on how tight or loose your opponent is and how the board texture meshes with your range and their range... but yes, top 2 on KJ4 is a lot better candidate than top 2 on JT8.

In cash games and when you are deep-stacked, you generally want to be betting your value hands and mixing in bluffs and semibluffs so you will mostly be betting even with most straights and flushes.

I find these types of plays work best with stacks in the 60 big blind and lower range so they are very effective in tournaments:

Against tight players with stronger ranges I tend to play aggressively with two pair since these players will have big pairs more often or top pair, top kicker, which they will have a hard time folding.

Loose players with weaker ranges are usually better candidates for adding some deceptive checks, even with hands as weak as a good top pair hand (often they will have nothing and fold if you bet anyways). Target aggressive opponents rather than passive opponents - if they aren't capable of bluffing then betting is better.

Obviously checking a strong hand can end up costing you if your opponent makes a better hand... also just missing out on value when it turns out they have a hand that would have called more. If you have a hard time with "bad beats" or folding a made hand when the board runs out terribly for you then the value you gain from their bluffs and when you win a big pot from them misreading your hand will be offset some.

Good luck!
 
leogetz79

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last Wednesday i just had doubled my stack, had 82 suited. in the button, i limp and the flop came 886. i raise small blind calls. long story short i went all in he calls he had trips too but with a higher kicker. the lesson i took from it never play 82 again ;)
 
polote21

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Personally simple game on the flop and turn, where I pose a betting strategy is on the river, I can only say that you must bet an amount that the villain can pay usually 25% or 30% of his stack. go all in blocks possible gains.
 
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