Why would you check on the river?

Everything I search on Google comes up with 'checking the nuts penalty' which isn't what I'm after.

I've seen people check on the river, and I used to do it, and to me that just screams 'I'm not confident about my cards even on the river'. So why would you check? I saw someone do it on a $1m buy-in tournament I watched. What's to 'check' if all the cards are out? What are you checking?

Checking hands that have showdown value or to induce your opponent to bet.

thatgreekdude said:

Checking hands that have showdown value

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Is that an equivalent to just 'not betting any more'?

or to induce your opponent to bet.

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Ahh..

thatgreekdude said:

Checking hands that have showdown value or to induce your opponent to bet.

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Or when you've been bluffing or semi-bluffing on the flop and turn and it's obvious you're beaten so time to give up and not spew

checking back river means your hand has showdown value and your only gonna get called by better so unless you wanna turn your hand into a bluff, sometimes checking back river is the right choice.

vinylspiros said:

checking back river means your hand has showdown value and your only gonna get called by better so unless you wanna turn your hand into a bluff, sometimes checking back river is the right choice.

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I have no idea what that means.. Showdown value surely means you don't need to bluff? What do you mean by called by better, can you give an example?

Cheers

You can use it to induce reevaluation by both party or simply when you just setting a trap.

JKawai said:

I have no idea what that means.. Showdown value surely means you don't need to bluff? What do you mean by called by better, can you give an example?

Cheers

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Quick example.

Say you have TJ and board comes: T38 rainbow . Lets assume you are in position, meaning you get to act last.


If villain bets this flop, you can easily call as you have top pair at this point. So he bets and you call.


Turn comes an ace. This is a scare card and obviously a good card for him to represent as your range is now very ten heavy since you called his flop bet.


Now lets say villain bets this turn again and you decide to call because his line isnt convincing or you still think your ten is good.


If villain checks (BRICK) river and its your turn to act since you get to act last, it would be a good idea to check behind since your hand has showdown value( with it being second best pair on board) and therefor betting at this point would ony be called down by an Ace or a ten with a better kicker ,both of which have you beat.



Thats why sometimes its better to check back rivers than to bet when your only gonna get called by better. So there is no value in betting unless you are going to be betting HUGE and think you can get them to fold which is highly unadvisable if you dont have any solid reads.


hope this helped.

If your first to act, you can check and see what villain do next. You can continue it by raising, calling or folding depending on your evaluation.

If your last to act and villain checks, you can check likewise if your not sure of your hand.

Just checking behind a hand in position which isn't strong enough to value bet but strong enough to win at showdown and times we just check behind to give up because we can't get our opponent to fold better.

For example; You have 3rd pair and think your opponent has a worse hand but isn't going to call if you bet so you check behind because there's is no point in betting. If you have 3rd pair and think you opponent has a better hand we can then turn 3rd pair into a bluff because we think he's going to fold better hands.


Basically what you want to do is when in position is only check if you think you either have the best hand which isn't good enough to value bet or you don't think your bluff will work so just basically give up by checking back the river.

edit: I said I got this, but no, I don't. The above is just a word salad to me.

Quick example.

Say you have TJ and board comes: T38 rainbow . Lets assume you are in position, meaning you get to act last.


If villain bets this flop, you can easily call as you have top pair at this point. So he bets and you call.

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Top pair? What about J, Q, K, A? What if he has AA?

Turn comes an ace. This is a scare card

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Scaring who though?

and obviously a good card for him to represent

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Represent what/who?

as your range is now very ten heavy

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Does 'ten heavy' mean the only thing I have going for me is tens, whereas he has something to do with the A possibly?

since you called his flop bet.

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Not sure what this means in relation to what was said

If villain checks (BRICK)

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What's brick?

river and its your turn to act since you get to act last, it would be a good idea to check behind

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What's the difference between checking and checking behind?

since your hand has showdown value

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But he might have AA, surely that has showdown value?

( with it being second best pair on board)

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Isn't it the only pair on the board?

and therefor betting at this point would ony be called down by an Ace or a ten with a better kicker ,both of which have you beat.

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When did I beat them?

Thats why sometimes its better to check back rivers

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Check back rivers, or check on the river?

than to bet when your only gonna get called by better. So there is no value in betting unless you are going to be betting HUGE and think you can get them to fold which is highly unadvisable if you dont have any solid reads.

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In other words, 'check if you are unsure you will win'?

Sorry, just very jargonistic for myself, a beginner!

yo

JKawai said:

edit: I said I got this, but no, I don't. The above is just a word salad to me.



Top pair? What about J, Q, K, A? What if he has AA?

yes those hands are a possibility but you have top pair on the particular board which alot of the times is good enough.

Scaring who though?

both of you, but if you called pre, it scarres you more as the initial preflop raisers usually have an Ace in their range quite often.

Represent what/who?

For him to represent that he has anace therefor to keep barreling.

Does 'ten heavy' mean the only thing I have going for me is tens, whereas he has something to do with the A possibly?

It means that since you called the flop bet on a relatively dry( unconnected board), that it seems likely for you to have a ten and villain usually knows this or thinks this.

Not sure what this means in relation to what was said

it means he thinks you have a ten because you called his bet on the flop on a ten high flop.

What's brick?

a card that doesnt really seem to have affected your or your opponents hands strength or that hasnt completed any draws. a blank card such as a 4 or a deuce or whatever.

What's the difference between checking and checking behind?

checking means you checked when it was your turn to act. Chcking behind means you checked when you were to act last.

But he might have AA, surely that has showdown value?

But we are talking about our hand not his ,right?

Isn't it the only pair on the board?

its the only pair that you have yes. You have a pair of tens with a jack kicker.

When did I beat them?

You didnt beat them. They both have you beat.

Check back rivers, or check on the river?

its basically the same thing only that when you are last to act you check it back instead of just check when you are to act first.

In other words, 'check if you are unsure you will win'?


pretty much yeah.


Sorry, just very jargonistic for myself, a beginner!

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do a little reading. it seems like it will help you.

Thank you, and yes you are probably right, I have dived (dove?) into this... I'm waiting for Theory of Poker to arrive in the post!

And thinking about it again with a fresh mind I get what you're saying now about checking IP/OOP... all makes sense now. Thank you for your help

If you are bluffing flop and turn, but you see that your opponent doesn't want to fold, then best move is check or if you hit nuts with check you could put a trap on your opponent.

JKawai said:

Everything I search on Google comes up with 'checking the nuts penalty' which isn't what I'm after.

I've seen people check on the river, and I used to do it, and to me that just screams 'I'm not confident about my cards even on the river'. So why would you check? I saw someone do it on a $1m buy-in tournament I watched. What's to 'check' if all the cards are out? What are you checking?

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After reading all the advice already given to you on this post it sounds like you are new to poker. I cannot add anything more except to say there is plenty of advice, online books and ordinary books available out there to choose from, I suggest you take some time to read as much of it as as possible.

Checking on the river means that you think you don't have the best hand and it isn't necessary to make a bluff because your opponent will call your hand and you will lose the pot.
Or if you play very agressive the flop an the turn you can check the river hopeing that your opponent will bet and then you'll make a big raise.

Martinez said:

After reading all the advice already given to you on this post it sounds like you are new to poker. I cannot add anything more except to say there is plenty of advice, online books and ordinary books available out there to choose from, I suggest you take some time to read as much of it as as possible.

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Theory of Poker arrived today! Will do, thanks for the advice.

ChipsOwnerRO said:

Checking on the river means that you think you don't have the best hand and it isn't necessary to make a bluff because your opponent will call your hand and you will lose the pot.
Or if you play very agressive the flop an the turn you can check the river hopeing that your opponent will bet and then you'll make a big raise.

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Thanks for this, that's helpful