Why do you need a bankroll?

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GreenRobeHoliday

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I'm fairly new to the game of poker. I've been playing for almost a year exclusively online. I've never deposited my own money as I don't want to lose it which I'm sure I probably would, so I play freerolls until I make a bit of cash. Evertime I cash in the money I go and play cash games or micro stakes tournaments. Within a few hours to a few days I lose my winnings sometimes after a significant upswing. Ideally I would like to make money playing poker. Not even so much for the money I just really enjoy the game and playing for cash is so much more fun then playing freerolls.


My question is I'm not sure why you need a bankroll. Like I'll play some games and maybe I'll cash or win for a bit and my bankroll will go up and then it'll go down and I'll lose it. I would like to make smart enough decisions to be able to play in cash games and small buy in tourneys everyday. I'd like to know why a sizeable bankroll is important. If I lose and I'm going to lose my bankroll or if I play well and am able to marginally win and increase my bankroll over time wouldn't that inevitably be the case irrespective of starting bankroll size?
 
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puzzlefish

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The answers on this are out there already if you Google bank roll management for poker. I think the biggest reason to be properly rolled is so that you can continue playing and making a profit over the long term despite downswings that will otherwise eat up your balance and leave you playing freerolls. If you are properly rolled and make the right game decisions, the theory is that you will see a long term growth in your bank balance.
 
Anton Fedorov

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Rather, the size of the bankroll itself is not important, but its balance. It is important not to play too expensive in relation to your bankroll, because even when performing plus EV actions, you will not always be able to play a stable plus. Sometimes there will be a recession. In such cases, it’s important not to lose too much when you have a downstreak and increase your bankroll when an upstreak.
 
grumblbrumbl

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Bankroll management - one of the most important tools for success in poker
 
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fundiver199

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Its certainly possible to build a poker bankroll from just freeroll winnings, but it will take an incredibly long time, and your learning curve will be slow. So if you are serious about online poker, it is better to deposit some reasonable amount like 100$, which will allow you to play low limit cash games or sit n gos on a regular basis.

Freerolls are mostly hyper turbos and not very usefull for learning other more normal poker formats, although there are some exceptions like the Cardschat freerolls. These are decent tournaments, but the one on 888 poker for instance only run once a week. And again if you only play 1 tournament per week, you are not going to learn and improve very fast.
 
muse713

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I'm fairly new to the game of poker. I've been playing for almost a year exclusively online. I've never deposited my own money as I don't want to lose it which I'm sure I probably would, so I play freerolls until I make a bit of cash. Evertime I cash in the money I go and play cash games or micro stakes tournaments. Within a few hours to a few days I lose my winnings sometimes after a significant upswing. Ideally I would like to make money playing poker. Not even so much for the money I just really enjoy the game and playing for cash is so much more fun then playing freerolls.
My question is I'm not sure why you need a bankroll. Like I'll play some games and maybe I'll cash or win for a bit and my bankroll will go up and then it'll go down and I'll lose it. I would like to make smart enough decisions to be able to play in cash games and small buy in tourneys everyday. I'd like to know why a sizeable bankroll is important. If I lose and I'm going to lose my bankroll or if I play well and am able to marginally win and increase my bankroll over time wouldn't that inevitably be the case irrespective of starting bankroll size?


Check out the thread below, it should assist you. Good luck!
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/lea...ankroll-181238/?highlight=bankroll+management
 
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Effective bankroll management (often in the form of stop losses, but also in how you move up and down levels when you find yourself struggling in your game) can help protect you from downswings and more importantly, tilt. It’s only really useful if you are a winning player overall. If you are a losing player, it just allows you to stay in the game for longer before having to redeposit...
 
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it helps regulate what games you are playing. you want to play at levels that allow you to have plenty of buy-ins. otherwise you can blow all your money and be out.
 
puzzlefish

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It's not that you need a bank roll, you need to learn bankroll management. It's tough, but you can build your bankroll from freerolls. The trick is to have the patience to do it right.

Check it out: https://www.cardschat.com/poker-bankroll-management.php
Can you make an argument on there not being a difference between having a balance on a poker site vs your overall borrowing power and assets outside of poker sites? I agree bank roll management is the crucial concept, but I feel there is some kind of psychological effect from the actual balance on a particular poker site.
 
zinzir

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If you win 2 dollars on a freeroll and then jump to a micro table to play it will be hard to build a bankroll. But if you hold on to your freeroll earnings until you accumulate 100 dollars, then you can approach the 1-2 cent tables with confidence, and really see how your skill compares to the other players' because you can approach the game with a strategy and have enough cushion that you don't play scared money.
 
antonis32123

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You need to deposit , can't wait only to build a bankroll from freerolls . Choose carefully the games you are going to play according to your abillities and skills , study the game , fix your mistakes/leaks , and follow a bakroll management plan , or else it's possible to lose it all and then get frustrated/dissapointed .
 
zinzir

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You need to deposit , can't wait only to build a bankroll from freerolls . Choose carefully the games you are going to play according to your abillities and skills , study the game , fix your mistakes/leaks , and follow a bakroll management plan , or else it's possible to lose it all and then get frustrated/dissapointed .


You made excellent points, but I don't understand why can't he wait to build a bankroll from freerolls, what's the rush? If he joins the Freeroll club he will have at least one good freeroll every day, plus all the other ones already available. Why deposit and rush to the tables when he can find and fix leaks in his game while playing freerolls too. In poker, as in life, patience is key.
 
pepsilv

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Bankroll management is important as well as other factors, so you can be a successful poker player. GL.
 
antonis32123

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You made excellent points, but I don't understand why can't he wait to build a bankroll from freerolls, what's the rush? If he joins the Freeroll club he will have at least one good freeroll every day, plus all the other ones already available. Why deposit and rush to the tables when he can find and fix leaks in his game while playing freerolls too. In poker, as in life, patience is key.


So you suggest that he waits everytime until he gets into a FT top5 where the money is , which won't be happenning often as he's a new player with no great experience in contrast to most FC members , until then if he minicashes play a sng/micro cash game with 0.60$ ???? and if he loses wait again until he minicashes again ??? So he'll be playing only if he minicashes/cashes , all the other days he'll just play the freerolls (where people play more loose and aggro , shove more ) and no a real money decent game to get practice in action ???
CC freerolls are the best ofcourse , you can learn many things from great players , but they are still freerolls , if he doesn't deposit to have a starting bankroll and play whenever he wants and get real action experience at the tables (sngs, cash tables etc), I don't believe he 'll learn a lot , I don't believe he'll have enough practice :)

A small deposit (especially when there's a good promo/offer) is not a big deal , is it ???



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zinzir

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So you suggest that he waits everytime until he gets into a FT top5 where the money is , which won't be happenning often as he's a new player with no great experience in contrast to most FC members , until then if he minicashes play a sng/micro cash game with 0.60$ ???? and if he loses wait again until he minicashes again ??? So he'll be playing only if he minicashes/cashes , all the other days he'll just play the freerolls (where people play more loose and aggro , shove more ) and no a real money decent game to get practice in action ???
CC freerolls are the best ofcourse , you can learn many things from great players , but they are still freerolls , if he doesn't deposit to have a starting bankroll and play whenever he wants and get real action experience at the tables (sngs, cash tables etc), I don't believe he 'll learn a lot , I don't believe he'll have enough practice :)

A small deposit (especially when there's a good promo/offer) is not a big deal , is it ???



62853775547161130913212ee5d47726.png


I never said he should play freerolls, win a little and and go to the cash table and play, I actually advised against it since that's not the way to build a bankroll from freerolls (read my initial post for more details). But I have built healthy bankrolls on pokerstars, Betonline, and ACR only from freerolls. I lost the Pokerstars account since I live in the US, but I still have my Betonline and ACR accounts.

Back in the day BOL had awesome freerolls with a $300, $200, and multiple $100, $50, and $25 freerolls every single day, so I built a healthy bankroll over a couple of years without playing any cash tables at all. Now I play cash tables at the very lowest micro stakes possible which are 1-2 cent at ACR and 5-10 cent BOL where I am still a losing player, even though I got very close to breaking even, because it's so hard to find freerolls with ACR not working and BOL hardly having any. Now the good days of BOL freerolls are over and , but this CC freeroll club seems like a good deal for a bankroll builder, I understand that the players are good, but I have watched the registration numbers, the field is quite small, so it can't be that much harder to get in the money that the old BOL freerolls.

If I can build bankrolls from freerolls anybody can for I consider my poker skill below average. I am not saying that making a deposit is a capital sin, just that one can build a bankroll without one, that's all. Also, I appreciate you having a different opinion than mine, because in poker, as in life, rarely you can find something completely right or wrong, at it's nice for someone trying to decide how to build a bankroll to read about pros and cons for each of the different routes available for them, and chose the one that better resonates with their own rationale.

PS: In my opinion, in that quote, Phil Ivey meant that money should not influence your decision making during poker play, and it was not about bankroll management or making a deposit.
 
Tammy

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Can you make an argument on there not being a difference between having a balance on a poker site vs your overall borrowing power and assets outside of poker sites? I agree bank roll management is the crucial concept, but I feel there is some kind of psychological effect from the actual balance on a particular poker site.
Oh that can absolutely be true. Your bankroll is whatever you set for yourself, not necessarily just what is in your balance at a poker site.

Maybe you have a certain amount of money earmarked for poker, but you keep it outside of the poker site. You only draw from it when you need to reload, but that money is set aside as "poker money".

So I agree you don't have to qualify just your poker site balance as your bankroll. It's whatever limit you set for yourself. The key is: you have to stick to it, and you should never play with money you cannot afford to lose, or take money from other important obligations.

I never said he should play freerolls, win a little and and go to the cash table and play, I actually advised against it since that's not the way to build a bankroll from freerolls (read my initial post for more details). But I have built healthy bankrolls on Pokerstars, Betonline, and ACR only from freerolls. I lost the Pokerstars account since I live in the US, but I still have my Betonline and ACR accounts.

Back in the day BOL had awesome freerolls with a $300, $200, and multiple $100, $50, and $25 freerolls every single day, so I built a healthy bankroll over a couple of years without playing any cash tables at all. Now I play cash tables at the very lowest micro stakes possible which are 1-2 cent at ACR and 5-10 cent BOL where I am still a losing player, even though I got very close to breaking even, because it's so hard to find freerolls with ACR not working and BOL hardly having any. Now the good days of BOL freerolls are over and , but this CC freeroll club seems like a good deal for a bankroll builder, I understand that the players are good, but I have watched the registration numbers, the field is quite small, so it can't be that much harder to get in the money that the old BOL freerolls.

If I can build bankrolls from freerolls anybody can for I consider my poker skill below average. I am not saying that making a deposit is a capital sin, just that one can build a bankroll without one, that's all. Also, I appreciate you having a different opinion than mine, because in poker, as in life, rarely you can find something completely right or wrong, at it's nice for someone trying to decide how to build a bankroll to read about pros and cons for each of the different routes available for them, and chose the one that better resonates with their own rationale.

PS: In my opinion, in that quote, Phil Ivey meant that money should not influence your decision making during poker play, and it was not about bankroll management or making a deposit.
This was a good reply, but you had it all together in one block of text which made it very difficult to read and digest. So I broke it up in paragraphs for you. Please try to do that with future posts so people will read them and not skip over it! :)
 
eberetta1

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Why need a poker bankroll? For one thing it says if you are making a profit or loss. An analogy would be a checkbook. Who needs a checkbook? Someone that wants to be responsible or keep track of where their spending is going. And if you don't keep a positive balance in the checkbook, you will pay for things in cash which is a fine and dandy way to live also.
Living without a poker bankroll is the same as paying for everything in cash. So you will have no records to figure out where the cash drain is coming from and steps to correct it.
 
eberetta1

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For me, bankroll management let's me know the size of a tournament or table I can sit at, much like $10k or $100k in an account can let you get a feel for how much car you can afford to buy.
 
antonis32123

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I never said he should play freerolls, win a little and and go to the cash table and play, I actually advised against it since that's not the way to build a bankroll from freerolls (read my initial post for more details)

If you win 2 dollars on a freeroll and then jump to a micro table to play it will be hard to build a bankroll. But if you hold on to your freeroll earnings until you accumulate 100 dollars,.........
I skipped the first post , didn't read it , now I saw it . If he's good enough and be able to build soon 50$ or 100$ bankroll good for him , but in most cases I don't think it will be easy , so he'll have to wait a lot without playing any real money games :)

But I have built healthy bankrolls on Pokerstars, Betonline, and ACR only from freerolls.

Whatever I said I was talking generally , not specifically for you or GreenRobeHoliday :)

I play freerolls , everyone plays freerolls , even the big fishes play freerolls (now on 888poker 80+ , 100+ , 15000$ monthly elite , pokerstars used to have for big fish but not anymore , I also remember at pokerstars 1000$ freerolls everyday , or 2000$ every weekend , or less money freerolls in the past when I could everytime :)mad:) meet Supernova or Supernova elite players at these tables or other high rank players , and I was wondering these players play for hundreds or millions of $$$$ in cash games or tournaments , wtf do these sharks want in our small prize freerolls , LOL :D )

Freerolls help your bankroll a lot and they can give you the chance to play games you wouldn't play normally only with your bankroll . If you can build a bankroll only from freerolls , congratulations , I really mean it . I was talking for beginners not to be afraid to deposit (and ofcourse play extremelly carefully with these money if you are not good enough) , also if you lose your bankroll for any reason , not to be afraid to deposit again , and ofcourse play at the same time the freerolls in order to expand your bankroll , to be able to play more games , etc .

.....because it's so hard to find freerolls with ACR not working and BOL hardly having any. Now the good days of BOL freerolls are over and , but this CC freeroll club seems like a good deal for a bankroll builder, I understand that the players are good, but I have watched the registration numbers, the field is quite small, so it can't be that much harder to get in the money that the old BOL freerolls.

Most freerolls , like CardsChat on ACR are back , with the exception of one two sites , maybe these will come back later , so everything is going well again :)
I also built my bankroll at ACR from freerolls and then play with the winnings 10cent tournaments and have winnings and expand it , I have tight BRM , I try to play the 1.1$ or 2.2$ or 5.5$ only when there is a series of tournaments with big guarantees so they can give more than 1000$ prize , but I have no success for the time being , bad beats ?? bad decisions ?? maybe both :) But I deposited at the beginning , they had some freerolls for depositors I think , small deposit :)The same at the old FullTilt :)

If I can build bankrolls from freerolls anybody can for I consider my poker skill below average. I am not saying that making a deposit is a capital sin, just that one can build a bankroll without one, that's all.

Don't say that :) I have played innumerable freerolls and I don't go well , CC freerolls or some others , on 888poker and ACR I have built bankrolls , but on PokerStars I have deposited not only when I first joined , but many times since then cause I lost the bankroll due to tilt (and bad beats :eek:) , and freerolls winnings there are not good/enough , at one site that has the same poker lobby with partypoker I deposited again .
But if you are good at freerolls , that's awesome , probably you don't need to deposit not even once (only when you want to withdraw , I think then all rooms impose you to make a first deposit ). But if sb like me isn't , maybe he has to make a deposit (again and again ?) :)

PS: In my opinion, in that quote, Phil Ivey meant that money should not influence your decision making during poker play, and it was not about bankroll management or making a deposit.

Well I believed he was talking generally , not to play with scared money , not only while you play poker cash games/tournaments , but also , I mean if sb says'' I won't deposit cause probably it's a waste of money cause I don't know how to play well '' , aren't you afraid of losing money ?? Isn't your money on the tables , even the freerolss money , scared money ???Some other might keep the freeroll money and not play at all , not even one real money game with them , this also can happen :) But , on the other hand , some players might play more loose and extremelly more aggressively , not at all scared , exactly because it's freeroll winnings , and not their money . So yes , it depends on every player's abilities , skills , playing style , character/aggressiveness , playing preferences ......



Good Luck at your games :)






.
 
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antonis32123

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......... and I was wondering these players play for hundreds or millions of $$$$ in cash games or tournaments , wtf do these sharks want in our small prize freerolls , LOL :D )

**hunderds of thousands
 
zinzir

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I skipped the first post , didn't read it , now I saw it . If he's good enough and be able to build soon 50$ or 100$ bankroll good for him , but in most cases I don't think it will be easy , so he'll have to wait a lot without playing any real money games :)



Whatever I said I was talking generally , not specifically for you or GreenRobeHoliday :)

I play freerolls , everyone plays freerolls , even the big fishes play freerolls (now on 888poker 80+ , 100+ , 15000$ monthly elite , pokerstars used to have for big fish but not anymore , I also remember at pokerstars 1000$ freerolls everyday , or 2000$ every weekend , or less money freerolls in the past when I could everytime :)mad:) meet Supernova or Supernova elite players at these tables or other high rank players , and I was wondering these players play for hundreds or millions of $$$$ in cash games or tournaments , wtf do these sharks want in our small prize freerolls , LOL :D )

Freerolls help your bankroll a lot and they can give you the chance to play games you wouldn't play normally only with your bankroll . If you can build a bankroll only from freerolls , congratulations , I really mean it . I was talking for beginners not to be afraid to deposit (and ofcourse play extremelly carefully with these money if you are not good enough) , also if you lose your bankroll for any reason , not to be afraid to deposit again , and ofcourse play at the same time the freerolls in order to expand your bankroll , to be able to play more games , etc .



Most freerolls , like CardsChat on ACR are back , with the exception of one two sites , maybe these will come back later , so everything is going well again :)
I also built my bankroll at ACR from freerolls and then play with the winnings 10cent tournaments and have winnings and expand it , I have tight BRM , I try to play the 1.1$ or 2.2$ or 5.5$ only when there is a series of tournaments with big guarantees so they can give more than 1000$ prize , but I have no success for the time being , bad beats ?? bad decisions ?? maybe both :) But I deposited at the beginning , they had some freerolls for depositors I think , small deposit :)The same at the old FullTilt :)



Don't say that :) I have played innumerable freerolls and I don't go well , CC freerolls or some others , on 888poker and ACR I have built bankrolls , but on PokerStars I have deposited not only when I first joined , but many times since then cause I lost the bankroll due to tilt (and bad beats :eek:) , and freerolls winnings there are not good/enough , at one site that has the same poker lobby with Partypoker I deposited again .
But if you are good at freerolls , that's awesome , probably you don't need to deposit not even once (only when you want to withdraw , I think then all rooms impose you to make a first deposit ). But if sb like me isn't , maybe he has to make a deposit (again and again ?) :)



Well I believed he was talking generally , not to play with scared money , not only while you play poker cash games/tournaments , but also , I mean if sb says'' I won't deposit cause probably it's a waste of money cause I don't know how to play well '' , aren't you afraid of losing money ?? Isn't your money on the tables , even the freerolss money , scared money ???Some other might keep the freeroll money and not play at all , not even one real money game with them , this also can happen :) But , on the other hand , some players might play more loose and extremelly more aggressively , not at all scared , exactly because it's freeroll winnings , and not their money . So yes , it depends on every player's abilities , skills , playing style , character/aggressiveness , playing preferences ......



Good Luck at your games :)






.
Very good points throughout, big like! Good luck to you too , mate, see you around!
 
Newzooozooo

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Hi.
I am convinced that a dedicated player can build a bankroll from scratch by playing freerolls only. This is absolutely real.In my opinion, a bankroll is like an investment deposit that, in the long run, can be profitable.
 
okeedokalee

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Everyone has a bankroll. What you need to do is manage it correctly. If you don't, you will no longer have a bankroll, and will become a contributor to the rigtard thread.
 
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Bankroll management is crucial to becoming a successful player. The main reason is to compensate for your potential losses and to allow for a player to increase the stakes over time. You're never guaranteed to walk away in the black when you sit down at a table. The recommended bankroll you should start with for cash games is 20x the max buy in and for tournaments you should buy in for 10-15% if your starting bankroll exceeds $500 . If you walk into a 1/2 cash game and buy in for $200 and somehow lose then you have nothing. Poker is a game of probability and even the best players in the world lose money or go cold for a bit and having bankroll provides security, especially if you play poker for a living, from becoming completely broke. It happens ALL the time to those who play for more than they can afford. Just because someone is an exceptional player doesn't mean they're an invincible player. If you're making smart decisions at the table, your bankroll will increase. A string of bad decisions or suckouts can completely make all of the hours spent at the tables a complete waste of time. So, having a bankroll may not improve your play but it will increase your chances of being able to make incremental and sustained profit over the span of your poker career.
 
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