Why do we make bankroll limits and break them?

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Mursilis1

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The problem:
At one point this was a repetitive cycle for me in my poker career. You make limits... limits that you are sure to keep you in the game and moving up to big games. But for some reason you break them, and you go bust.

Some people want to get even, some need a rush.. Im sure there are many reasons.

What happens next?
You tell yourself another story about how this time is different and make another deposit. Your mind will trick you every time.

Solution:

If you set your limits and you still break them I think this points a psychological problem.
Most of us have this flaw. Some of us are in denial about it. Until we addresses the issue by learning what causes bankroll suicide and ways to prevent it, then it will just keep happening.

I recommend books like "the poker mindset" or "your worst poker enemy" but there are many others.
 
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dead homie

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its like making a new years resolution, why do we make those? we want to have good bank mang. but its sucks if you cant play anymore, if your addicted to it then its almost impossible
 
xmarus91

xmarus91

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i do it all the time and u know if u just follow the rules u will win
 
spsb83

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I need to read 'the poker mindset' I'm currently on a Cash bankroll challenge and so far so good well im winning at the moment. But at some point I will end up back at my starting roll . I seem to have the mindset that I cannot be a winning player must be some weird negative outlook. I'm similar in life, never going to happen to me attitude.

Maybe i should read a few self help books and this time next year I'll be mixing it up at the nosebleeds stakes.
 
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charlymorton

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I think it's down to two things, getting lack of discipline and greed.

Lack of discipline will cause you to lose your whole bankroll over and over again, I've done it several times and will probably do it again.

Also, if you get too greedy it's easy to postpone the cash out, as you want to win more and more money, but, even though you might start off well, you'll end up losing everything.
 
SofaKingCrazy

SofaKingCrazy

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I'm a freeroller by heart, started from $0 on 3 sites and very little for all others until last month when I made my 1st deposit. Don't even know if that counts because it was money from another site I withdrew from.

Point is when you start out from $0 you can't follow BRM and that bad habit can stay with you because you get used to it.
 
kidkvno1

kidkvno1

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It's the lack of discipline! If you want to work on discipline, then i would say build your BR from freerolls! It's harder to build a BR from Freerolls, and it should help your discipline, by remembering how hard it was to build it up from $0.00
Also depending on which site you are playing on, some have a stop-loss on them.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Because we are very (some VERY) good at lying to ourselves. That;s it - plain and simple.

STOP TELLING YOURSELF LIES
 
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inflnlte

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I think it's down to two things, getting lack of discipline and greed.

Lack of discipline will cause you to lose your whole bankroll over and over again, I've done it several times and will probably do it again.

Also, if you get too greedy it's easy to postpone the cash out, as you want to win more and more money, but, even though you might start off well, you'll end up losing everything.

Yep both lack of discipline and greed. We end up losing a little or aren't winning like we want to and then end up playing bigger to make some quick money. Sometimes it works but a lot of times it fails you lose your bankroll.
 
RichL

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Point is when you start out from $0 you can't follow BRM and that bad habit can stay with you because you get used to it.
Sofa, i'm interested in why you think building a bankroll from zero means you can't follow BRM. Once you have some bankroll don't the same disciplines apply ?
 
hobonc

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Sofa, i'm interested in why you think building a bankroll from zero means you can't follow BRM. Once you have some bankroll don't the same disciplines apply ?
This is because most BRs started from free rolls are so small there aren't limits small enough to allow for proper BRM.
 
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Mursilis1

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When I heard this definition of self discipline it helped me in a lot of areas of my life not just poker, hope it helps everyone too.
Self discipline is doing what you should do, when you should do it, whether you feel like it our not.
 
hobonc

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When pros talk in terms of BRM what they are calling their BR is all the money they have to play poker with. So, if you load $100 onto a site, or take that amount with you to a game, but in your mind know (and play under the assumption) that you can go to the ATM and get more should you lose that $100, then the $100 itself isn't your BR necessarily. Your BR in that case is the amount you can get from the ATM.
 
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Mursilis1

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From a psychological perspective your right hobonc.

But that is a dangouous mind set that can leave someone in ruin if they dont correct it. They could mess up their credit lose a car or home even.
 
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tim132

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I can honestly say there's no way I would fall into this frame of mind. Strict bankroll management for me, I've worked far too hard building my bankroll to go and blow it due to lack of discipline.

"The Poker Mindset", I have an audio book of that, it was one of the very first bits of poker literature I studied. Must have listened to it at least 4 times through, it's excellent and I highly recommend it to anyone having bankroll management or tilt issues!
 
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Willols

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I definitely have that problem. Recently had a good week, which turned into blowing through my entire bankroll playing at stakes I shouldn't have been in.
 
BluffyouBAD

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This is my biggest problem online. I get out of my bankroll range than lose half of it.
 
ChronicFish

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Page bookmarked.. when on a bad streak and you belive that you can win it back, win you will not, come read this for the win!
 
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RamdeeBen

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Not everyone breaks the rule, some are and have always been disciplined.

However; most have been there myself included. I haven't done it for a very long time though. The reason why is glaringly obvious and something I knew from the very first time I did it; but still didn't stop me doing it a few times after. I just didn't like losing in money but I didn't care enough about it to actually stop myself doing.

However there came a time where I realized and actually felt the hard work and effort I put in was basically going to waste. I solved it simply by realizing the experience from previous times of busting my roll that it's a feeling I didn't want to go through again, by far the worse poker experience for me was busting the account as it made me felt like a complete failure. I wish I thought/cared as much as the last time I busted my roll the very first time I did it, so I could of saved numerous more hard work bankroll building.
 
SofaKingCrazy

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Sofa, i'm interested in why you think building a bankroll from zero means you can't follow BRM. Once you have some bankroll don't the same disciplines apply ?

To me a proper BR is 50 buy-ins of every type of game you play. I, like others I'm sure, play whatever fits into the amount of time I believe I have to play. I don't want to know how much BR I 'should' have.

I play on the merge network so the $0.11 6man hyperturbo SNGs are the cheapest game to get into so at $5.50 you could say you are BR'd for them... but this still isn't BRM. Your next cheapest game is $0.60 and to be BR'd you would need $30. Together you would need $35.50. Find me a player who can do this.... priceless. :p
 
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Mursilis1

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The general rule I follow regarding bankrolls is this, the large my roll the more I do to protect it. So for MTT buyins for example if you were to look at what percentage an MTT buyin is of my bankroll, the larger my roll the smaller the percentage is. So I have heard Chris Ferguson recommend 1 percent. I think this is a good bench mark. WHen my roll is very small the buyin percentage is 3%. As my roll grows it gradually reaches 1%. As my roll get larger I protect further by gradually lowering that percentage further.
Here is why I think this is important. It is hard work building a roll. If you build it from 0 playing freerolls and lose a small roll you can start over. Its not that hard but if You buillt up 30k from scratch it is not easy to replace!
Even though the percentage gets smaller you are still moving up to bigger games and the competition is tougher. Give your self room to make adjustments.
Also there is something call a psycological bankroll as well. If you have say 30k playing a 300 dollar tourny may be to much to handle, maybe not at first but after you lose 10 str8 in a couple of days. thats 3k gone. you might be more comfortable playing 100 dollar or 50 dollar buyins where a losing streak is only 500 or 1000 dollars or your bankroll.
 
Arjonius

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I can't speak to my own reasons for breaking my guidelines simply because I've never done so. That said, I suspect that in many instances, a reason - not necessarily THE reason - is that the money isn't perceived as truly meaningful. I don't know if it can be understood or explained rationally when a person does something that's not very rational.
 
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Nickwastaken

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i used to have that problem but then realized if you are serious about playing, its the only way to play :)

i will give those books a little looksy tho.. they sound interesting :)
 
wanderingthehall

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I have my poker guidelines that I am doing pretty good at following online. My problem is shots at live play are different because I don't have a separate bankroll, I just go play with what I have. What I've learned is that I spew money gambling when I'm depressed or not content with something major in my life. The reason behind this is because money is something I have some control over and it is something that can improve my life. Usually I just lose a lot of money and feel like s*** afterwards. Unfortunately, I haven't figure out how to break that cycle.
 
Arjonius

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It comes down to a matter of self-discipline. A few people find tips and tricks that help them, but if there were simple things we could do that work for lots of people, the problem would be far less common than it is.

Psychologically, it's often easier to make excuses for something we did than not to do it in the first place. But we can all do the latter at times, so one possible way to address this issue is to figure out how / why we can be more self-disciplined in certain RL situations, and then to adapt from those to poker.
 
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