Why do I still tilt?

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone had any good free resources regarding the psychology of tilting. To clarify, I'm not looking for tips such as "just take a break" etc. - I recently found the introduction to an article on poker strategy (http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/psychology/1936/1/) that mentions the mental game of poker in more detail. It suggests that managing tilt doesn't get to the root of the problem which I agree with.

However, I don't wish to buy this article or subscribe to Poker Strategy as the comments below it suggest it is just a teaser.

Not sure if this is the same or not but cc has some strategy in regards to the tilt factor:
https://www.cardschat.com/stop-poker-tilt.php

I'm at work so can't view the link you have but did notice in the cc one it mentions about poker strategy so might be similar. It's certainly a psychology thing and not sure about free resources on it but hear the jarad tindler book is good (although tried to order lately and seems out of stock on amazon). In any regard a big thing with scrubbing off bad beats to prevent tilt is think long run, granted i have tilt issues as well and am trying to get them ironed out myself.

Managing tilt is more important than playing well. If you play a medium game,you will be break-even or even lose at an X pace. If you are on tilt you will be losing at an X x 10 pace and that is catastrophic. Only experience will clarify that bad beats are inevitable to you. The more you take,the more you will be able to tolerate. Imagine going to a boxing class for the first time and. Taking some punches. At the beginning they will hurt and you will feel mad,scarred, tilted. After a few months in the ring,they will become routine and emotions will move to the side, allowing you to focus on what your doing instead of how it makes you feel.

@BluffMeAllIn

Yes, the author of the article I linked to recommended Jarad as well so it seems to be worth a read. I'm not so bad with bad beats now - I have taken enough to realise it is actually a good thing in the long term etc. - it is more if I misread an opponent, like for example if they ride one of my stronger bets and hit a straight. I don't consider that a bad beat, because I still have the chance to bet higher or get away on the river and too often I'm too committed. Again, I should realise if they keep doing that I will still win overall, but if they take the money off the table straight afterwards and I've lost my buy-in then it gets to me, or at least my poker ego.

This is why, with all due respect to the link you have posted on this site, I don't think the tips work long-term because most of them are about the time that you play at, taking breaks, being aware of your emotional and physical well-being. You can do all of that and still tilt, perhaps even more-so eventually, because you have done all of that and thought it was working as you move up the stakes, or to more tables.

I am consciously aware of when I am tilting and what makes me tilt - it's like a smoker being consciously aware that they are damaging their lungs. That is why I think it goes a lot deeper than the tips of "take a break from smoking", "live healthily outside of smoking", "only smoke at certain times". It still can do damage, perhaps more-so if you think you are dealing with it when you are not.

As @vinylspiros says, the more you take, the more you tolerate. Therefore, I think tilting is a part of the game that you can't eliminate without experiencing pretty heavily. I remember Phil Ivey talking about going to the city and wasting all of his wages and sleeping rough - other players that offer advice on tilting strategies often say, if they had taken bankroll management etc. when they started it would've been a lot easier to the top, would've stopped a lot of their needless pain etc.

Personally, I think a significant part of the reason they are at the top is because they felt the pain of losing their bankroll - they can tell you every situation each time it happened and not only consciously avoid it, but subconsciously as well. As Negreanu says, when all of your logic fails, you have to rely on your gut. I think the reason his gut is so good is because it can recognise each time it was destroyed more-so than the average player.

His subconscious is stronger. That is what I am referring to in terms of the psychology, as opposed to "he is better at avoiding tilting because he plays less hours".

I have become very good at recognizing tilt, and stopping it. I am not perfect though. Sometimes variance is just too much for some of us. We are human, and we will sometimes be overcome by emotions.

I know when I am steaming. I do a few things when I am....

• I get up and leave the table for a few minutes. I will think about the hand(s) that caused my tilt. I will walk around the casino and watch roullette tables, or people playing black jack.
• I will force myself to play even tighter when I feel like I am steaming.
• I remind myself that if I want to continue to be a winning player, I must manage my emotions and avoid spewing.
• If I just can't control my emotions, I will stop playing. Game over.
• I will listen to some soothing music with my headphones. Something to calm me down.
• I will take deep breaths, and try to relax. Deep breaths seem to help me a lot.
• I will try and converse with the other players at the table, to try and lighten my mood.
• I will focus on the action I am not involved in. It provides a distraction so I can stop dwelling on the tough beat (or whatever caused me to tilt).

It is not easy to avoid or control tilt. However, the really good players RARELY tilt and spew chips. I want to be one of these guys (not the guy who spews 4 buy-ins in 30 mins).

If you want to be a winning player, tilt must be kept in check. If you can't control your emotions, you will never be a long term winner.

That is all.

Edit: I am sorry, I just realized you didn't want tips. Your post got me thinking about tilt, and I wanted to contribute. I have heard of a book called "The poker mindset" (I believe that is what it's called). I have yet to read it. Forgive me for posting exactly what you said you didn't want to hear.

tilting happens i just go with it now. if i go on tilt i dont just stop but i do lower the level of the buyins i play when i am on tilt

No worries Beanfacekilla, I suppose it is impossible to discuss without tips.

Beanfacekilla said:

• I will force myself to play even tighter when I feel like I am steaming.

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I think this one could be the key. Often I find I win a lot of pots simply based on table image. Part of the reason that you do so badly when you tilt is that other players recognise how loose/aggressive/wild you are playing and don't respect anything you do. If you can somehow manage to channel your "steaming energy" into "grinding tighter than ever energy" then you could benefit from the situation, converting the anger with yourself into determination to realistically win part of your losses back.

sickpuppy said:

tilting happens i just go with it now. if i go on tilt i dont just stop but i do lower the level of the buyins i play when i am on tilt

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These are good points too. I find the biggest problem with tilting is wanting to raise the stakes and play as much poker as possible. You can't wait for the cards to come and are focussing all of your energy on one bigger table that you shouldn't be in. If at this point you can decide to lower your stakes and play more tables instead (assuming you're online), also buying-in for less than usual, it could help keep the bit of you that wants to play poker so busy that you can't steam, and if you do it is less consequential to your bankroll.

Go listen to the Poker Mindset audiobook, you should be able to find a free download online of it, if you are interested and need help I can pm you the link, This audiobook will help you understand the aspects of tilt and all things related to the poker mindset

bernotas22 said:

Go listen to the Poker Mindset audiobook, you should be able to find a free download online of it, if you are interested and need help I can pm you the link, This audiobook will help you understand the aspects of tilt and all things related to the poker mindset

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Pm me the link bernotas. I want to hear it. Thnks alot.

I just DL it from kickass torrent, want a torrent link vinyl?

I don't tilt anymore. I came to the realization one day that if it can happen, it most certainly will happen eventually. So now when it does happen. I'm prepared, and expecting it.
On to the next game

for me conquering tilt is one thing and one thing only.

you de-attatch yourself from any emotion surrounding bad beats/bad plays

focus solely on making the right decisions if you let the cards control you or your game your in the devils hands. and you wont get out

I always tell myself

Fight the devil. prove your resiliance and your strength otherwise you are a donk

Will do, bernotas22, thanks.

On my way there, I came across Jared on The Mental Game of Poker radio show for QuadJacks. He mentions the unconscious level and the tilt just being a symptom. He refers to it as being anger which could be from unresolved fear, motivation, or confidence issues. He suggests writing down accomplishments, areas to improve, any advice you consciously have, goals etc., to make sure that the subconscious understands what to achieve and how to achieve it.

For example, logically, I know risking my bankroll will not make me be able to live off poker quicker, it will make the progress slower. Yet subconsciously, my brain is telling me the way to get more money back after losing is to risk more. My subconscious is too desperate to succeed as it doesn't understand time and is scared of losing so needs to always win to be confident. My concious needs to tell my subconscious to take its confidence and motivation from my previous results and how I achieved those goals, rather than the most recent play.

For example, say I double my bankroll, and then lose 1% of it. My subconscious gets desperate when I lose the 1%, is scared of losing again, loses confidence in my ability, and tries to double my bankroll again as quickly as possible and ends up losing it. Consciously this is incredibly illogical, but my subconscious hasn't been reminded that, or experienced that enough to realise it. That's why writing things down, talking to yourself while you are playing, or simply experiencing more bad beats can help because all of those things remind the subconscious of how losing is okay and a significant part of poker you have to ride in order to win.

Not sure if you play on pokerstars or not but Jared has been on the forum in the pokerscchool there recently not sure if he still is but you should check it out.You might be able to ask him a question or two.......scorp

n3rv said:

Will do, bernotas22, thanks.

On my way there, I came across Jared on The Mental Game of Poker radio show for QuadJacks. He mentions the unconscious level and the tilt just being a symptom. He refers to it as being anger which could be from unresolved fear, motivation, or confidence issues. He suggests writing down accomplishments, areas to improve, any advice you consciously have, goals etc., to make sure that the subconscious understands what to achieve and how to achieve it.

For example, logically, I know risking my bankroll will not make me be able to live off poker quicker, it will make the progress slower. Yet subconsciously, my brain is telling me the way to get more money back after losing is to risk more. My subconscious is too desperate to succeed as it doesn't understand time and is scared of losing so needs to always win to be confident. My concious needs to tell my subconscious to take its confidence and motivation from my previous results and how I achieved those goals, rather than the most recent play.

For example, say I double my bankroll, and then lose 1% of it. My subconscious gets desperate when I lose the 1%, is scared of losing again, loses confidence in my ability, and tries to double my bankroll again as quickly as possible and ends up losing it. Consciously this is incredibly illogical, but my subconscious hasn't been reminded that, or experienced that enough to realise it. That's why writing things down, talking to yourself while you are playing, or simply experiencing more bad beats can help because all of those things remind the subconscious of how losing is okay and a significant part of poker you have to ride in order to win.

The Mental Game of Poker with Jared Tendler Poker Mindset Radio May 2, 2012 - YouTube

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seriously thank you for posting this....its stuff like this that EVERY poker player needs to be aware of, more so myself. i got up to $700 on bovada over the stretch of one week, best week of my life hands down, and it all stared from some random ticket to a tournament they gave me where 1st got 140. I some how won it. I looked at it as free money, played aggressive like it was cool in 20-25 $MTT, ended up getting to $700. cashed out $500, then put $200 on black on roulette, of course it lands on red....(i shouldve learned something from Tony Stark). called bovada and had them cancel my payment then reissue me my 500. i needed that $200 back...then it was ALL gone again over the course of 2 days....and the worse part was I KNEW I was tiliting the whole time, I got caught up so quick and the money was gone so quick....i get so mad at myself almost every day over that....but live and learn....even if its the hard way.

The amygdala is in the temporal lobe of your brain. The amygdala controls anger. It can cause hormones to seep into your blood stream. The hormones seep out before your logical cortex of your brain can decide what to do. Since the hormones are already in your body, you'll feel something. You can't get rid of it. It'll take a bit of time for the hormones to disappear. Since it's in your blood stream, it'll make it easier for you to get angry about the small stuff and go tilty.

I figured I'd talk about the biological side of psychology since behavior seems to already covered.

Cool WizardRubic, understanding that biological process can help the behavioural side as well. Thanks everyone for their replies - it has helped me get more answers to my initial question.

@n3rv you my friend brought up one of the most important if not the most important point in poker, I listen to the poker mindset audio-book constantly and analyze my mindset leaks, The book is amazing to realize that things such as monetary goals or short term results are nothing but burdens on your poker journey, good luck understanding and developing your mindset, It is very satisfying to leak up your holes and once your mindset leaks some major holes your small ones will close up as well and then you have nothing but improvement in your journey as long as you continue to study the game! good luck in your journey we all need to be open about our leaks as well cause chances are you are not the only one and you can help yourself and others by being honest