Who else likes the little delay?

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Steve_StudAA

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In the board being dealt in an all in situation.

You have decided to gamble, with someone who has played 60% of his hands, you are dealt a medium pocket pair. Typically buddy with the monster chip stack who has caught pretty much on everything for the last 20 hands leads out for a raise. You are sitting on 99. If you decide to play all the chips are going in anyway, so why not just do it PF.

Buddy turns up an unexpected ish AJ os. Flop is dry. So you calculate in your head you are now a 7.5-1 favorite. But then after what seems to be an eternity, the turn is a J.

If it did not happen several times a day, I would think something was strange.

I like it much better when the cards are delay consistent and just smooth, that little delay is mostly a killer for me. Anyone else notice that?
 
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karl coakley

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In the board being dealt in an all in situation.

You have decided to gamble, with someone who has played 60% of his hands, you are dealt a medium pocket pair. Typically buddy with the monster chip stack who has caught pretty much on everything for the last 20 hands leads out for a raise. You are sitting on 99. If you decide to play all the chips are going in anyway, so why not just do it PF.

Buddy turns up an unexpected ish AJ os. Flop is dry. So you calculate in your head you are now a 7.5-1 favorite. But then after what seems to be an eternity, the turn is a J.

If it did not happen several times a day, I would think something was strange.

I like it much better when the cards are delay consistent and just smooth, that little delay is mostly a killer for me. Anyone else notice that?

online poker has and always will be shady. From questionable software, to colluding, to hacks, to running ponzi accounting.

I have never taken online poker seriously since Black Friday. I lost money (but thankfully had most of it cashed out) and will most likely never trust a poker site with my money ever again unless it is U.S. regulated.

If you chose to play, those things should be in the back of your mind and should be accepted as the nature of the beast.

I do play online, but as enjoyment/a hobby, rather than to "make money", that is simply a byproduct. Rather than deposit, I just build a bankroll from free rolls and micro stakes which is rather easy (but I sure hate free rolls).

I take just as many bad beats live as I do online, but if you think they are the same, you are certainly mistaken. Because of the problems I listed above, I wouldn't have a problem with flopping down 500.00-1000.00 in a casino to play but would never consider it online in the current state of things. I know I'm leaving the casino with my winnings. Online, when I decide to cash out, we will see.

Rather than focusing on the problems, use online poker as a tool to become a better player. Keep your exposure low (the site could be gone tomorrow) and have a good time.
 
Ezekiel162

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... Rather than focusing on the problems, use online poker as a tool to become a better player. Keep your exposure low (the site could be gone tomorrow) and have a good time.

...In agreement with this. :cool:

...but I hate it when those weird delays happen too...:D cause they DO happen...:eek:
 
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Steve_StudAA

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If it helps I have been collecting a few stats.

Playing .25 cent SnG PS I could not even get in the top 18 in 10 attempts. Always runner runner and out.

But what I am doing different at PS is upping the buyin for some tournies.

It could be they are sucking me in like heroin, but I have finished no problem ITM in the $12 and 2 times in 2 attempts in the $7.50.

Runner runner suckouts happen, they happen real as well, its just not to the same amount and seems more normal at the higher buyin at least for now on PS.

I still don't trust it, had to sit for 2 hours clicking fold as absolutely no starting hands get dealt to me once the bubble breaks. I went from 6th to out in 30 something. Which is better than the old flopped boat being beat scenario knocking me out.

I have to many leaks, especially in these long tournaments to ever see in real success. But I think I'm pretty good at reading the other players hands using all the available info. Like last night, just before the bubble. I have AKos. Flop AK with 2 hearts. Guy goes allin on me. It would of dented my stack pretty good. I knew he also had AK though. I folded, he showed AKos as well. I folded to prevent the runner runner hearts though. But I could tell by his previous plays on 50 or so hands and the fact I was holding AK he likely did not have AA or KK. He would not not of done what he did PF with the smaller pair. He would not of went allin on a draw. It really gets pretty easy the more you practice to put someone on something. That part I find fun. I also practice that allot when I click fold if time permits. My previous play for those 50 hands, if I was him, I would of been more careful, I could of easily been holding KK or AA. I play those holdings to see a flop with 1 other person with great care.

Normally, I would not do that, but that is the kind of shit I get forced into doing because of all the BS I see. Gun shy!!!!!!

I'm also playing way above my bank which influences my decisions and prevents me from going to the finish line in the event I get some cards. Another huge leak.

I'll stick with it as long as my bank will allow. I'm clearly not a fan of the micro stakes bingo poker though.
 
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Steve_StudAA

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Just read this guy is dead........

To bad I was enjoying these videos.

 
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karl coakley

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If it helps I have been collecting a few stats.

Playing .25 cent SnG PS I could not even get in the top 18 in 10 attempts. Always runner runner and out.

But what I am doing different at PS is upping the buyin for some tournies.

It could be they are sucking me in like heroin, but I have finished no problem ITM in the $12 and 2 times in 2 attempts in the $7.50.

One thing to always consider is that you are not taking less bad beats because of the buy in, you are taking less bad beats on a larger buy in because you are playing with better players that play less trash.
 
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One thing to always consider is that you are not taking less bad beats because of the buy in, you are taking less bad beats on a larger buy in because you are playing with better players that play less trash.
Maybe, but I was involved in a 4 handed flush, and AA AA KK hands today. So many river suckouts.

Why would a player sit for 12 hands do nothing, PF raise from UTG1, I call with AK. AK hit the board, He pushes all in, I put him on and A. He turns 9 7 os to a nothing, but runner runner a straight. I get the stone cold bluff to a hot board, but seriously.

The game makes no sense but it's seen over and over and over.
 
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It happens all the time and seems like a set up. I only play for small stakes and entertainment, so it doesn't drive me nuts. But paranoia is definitely warranted if you're trying to make some cash.
 
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The delay on the turn was most likely due to lag.
If it helps I have been collecting a few stats.

Playing .25 cent SnG PS I could not even get in the top 18 in 10 attempts. Always runner runner and out.
...10 games is nothing. It's not even worth getting worked up over. It's variance. Why do you think you need to cash in the top 18 out 10 SNGs? What exactly would cashing in 1/10 games prove?

But what I am doing different at PS is upping the buyin for some tournies.

It could be they are sucking me in like heroin, but I have finished no problem ITM in the $12 and 2 times in 2 attempts in the $7.50.
...Again, it's variance. This time you're on the positive side of it, but cashing in bigger buy-in games doesn't prove anything either. Also, your sample size is ridiculously small. $12 games a big jump from .25 games. Do you think you could maintain a positive win rate at the $12 games if you continued playing?


Runner runner suckouts happen, they happen real as well, its just not to the same amount and seems more normal at the higher buyin at least for now on PS.
...Well, a logical explanation for this is that there are a lot weaker players at the lower levels. Weaker players will less experience and knowledge of the game will take more...interesting...lines when it comes to playing hands. So, they might play more hands, hands that better players might not. So, if there is an increase of players playing hands and more hands going to showdown, then you're going to see an increase of suck outs and losses.

I still don't trust it, had to sit for 2 hours clicking fold as absolutely no starting hands get dealt to me once the bubble breaks. I went from 6th to out in 30 something. Which is better than the old flopped boat being beat scenario knocking me out.
...It happens. If this were live, would you blame the random shuffler for being rigged? Also, you blame the cards for your 30th place exit. While true, the cards (or lack of playable ones) do take a part in it, you as a player are just to blame. You don't need cards to make plays that'll give you a better chance at staying alive. You can steal, resteal, use your tight-folding image to your advantage, etc.

I have to many leaks, especially in these long tournaments to ever see in real success. But I think I'm pretty good at reading the other players hands using all the available info. Like last night, just before the bubble. I have AKos. Flop AK with 2 hearts. Guy goes allin on me. It would of dented my stack pretty good. I knew he also had AK though. I folded, he showed AKos as well. I folded to prevent the runner runner hearts though.
...Do you always automatically assume someone has a flush draw when 2 suited cards hit the flop? If you do, that's pretty leaky. It's terrible to fold just because you think there a chance you might lose, especially when you most likely have the best hand.

The worst part, though, is that you put villain on AK as well, and you still folded. Theres no way villain had AK w/ a flush draw, so at best they only 1 heart in their hand. Even if the villain had a heart, the odds of a runner-runner flush hitting is only 4%. Terrible play.


But I could tell by his previous plays on 50 or so hands and the fact I was holding AK he likely did not have AA or KK. He would not not of done what he did PF with the smaller pair. He would not of went allin on a draw. It really gets pretty easy the more you practice to put someone on something. That part I find fun. I also practice that allot when I click fold if time permits. My previous play for those 50 hands, if I was him, I would of been more careful, I could of easily been holding KK or AA. I play those holdings to see a flop with 1 other person with great care.
...So, your read of the player was spot on. I don't know why you don't think it was possible for your opponent to hold AA or KK, but it's possible you could have been.

Still, I still don't understand how you could fold because you're scared of a 4% chance of a runner-runner flush hitting the board. It's mind boggling.


Normally, I would not do that, but that is the kind of shit I get forced into doing because of all the BS I see. Gun shy!!!!!!
...Yeah? You find yourself in a lot of situations where you have top 2 pair and lose to runner-runner flushes a lot?

I'm also playing way above my bank which influences my decisions and prevents me from going to the finish line in the event I get some cards. Another huge leak.
...Yes, a huge leak. And the easiest to fix.

I'll stick with it as long as my bank will allow. I'm clearly not a fan of the micro stakes bingo poker though.
...So, you can't beat the micro stakes because of the 'bingo' players, but you think you can beat the better players at higher stakes. Can you explain the logic?
Above.

I am a micro stakes player, I have been in all my years of playing. I currently play games ranging from .25-$2. Prior to this, it was mostly $1-$4 games on a different site. I have positive results in playing the micro stakes after many years of trial and error, and finding my footing as player. My point is that the micro stakes are possible to beat. Maybe not for everyone, but it is possible.

Like you said yourself, you have leaks. I have many leaks and many I have plugged over the years of playing, which has now made me a better, profitable player. My biggest leak was my mid-late stage play. Once I fixed that, I found myself making numerous final tables and winning 10 MTTs on Carbon poker in a span of 1.5 years. Prior to that and prior to black friday, I had played on stars and ftp for almost 5 years with only 1 small MTT win.

Your losses at the micro stakes are not due to the game being rigged or fixed. It's because of variance and your leaks. You can't change variance, but you can plug your leaks. Once you do that, you'll find yourself getting better results. Jumping in stakes is not how you plug your leaks. You'll only acquire more of them.
 
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... i think you're focusing on the wrong things , you lost a flip , happens everyday all day ... as for that magic dude he was a losing player on every site he played on , focus on what you can control and work on that , gl
 
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..I used to beat myself up with this every day /..the delay /..use it wisely /..outcomes are rvr s*ck-outs..move on ..diffs ..delay ..i love it

nicdabull
 
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"...So, your read of the player was spot on. I don't know why you don't think it was possible for your opponent to hold AA or KK, but it's possible you could have been.

Still, I still don't understand how you could fold because you're scared of a 4% chance of a runner-runner flush hitting the board. It's mind boggling."

I could not agree more. I am well aware of the math, but it is not 4%.

When you get fckd over and over by suck outs and stupid consecutive turns and rivers in precisely the same position, you might think differently.

What I see in 3 hours, I would not see in a year live.

You can call it variance if you wish, but the fixed ship has sailed many years ago.

Only thing truly random in online poker is the 2 hole cards the community are dealt. (Proven, tested and admitted) Not one site presently has agreed to have tested by authorities the randomness the cards dealt to the community board.

Also sites have gone to great lengths to avoid being subjected to any form of regulation or testing.

A number of sites gave up US players altogether rather than agree to be tested beyond the hole cards of the players.

You are only fooling yourself believing it to be random or variance.

There be why I fold on the bubble holding the same cards with 2 left to come. Been there done that bought that bumper sticker and maybe patience will provide me another opportunity but only once all the cards are down. Yeah I know it's stupid, but as I was trying to explain, this is the kind of stupid poker I feel forced into.

And as I sit looking at the stats of my many thousands of hands, AJos still ranking number 1 by a 2-1 margin over AA. Q2os still holding in the top 10. AKs has only returned chips once. All in from the button everyone folded. Normally it's called and is dead in the water. Dozens of attempts to get chips back with AKs have all been futile. 10 2os ranks 35 hands above and it's only a limp from the BB.
 
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... i think you're focusing on the wrong things , you lost a flip , happens everyday all day ... as for that magic dude he was a losing player on every site he played on , focus on what you can control and work on that , gl
I lose more than a flip. How about the whack job that put me all in (had him covered) after I flop set of jacks with a pair of 3's. Then runner runner the 3's like happened 2 seconds ago. Its fckn BS, they can go fck themselves.
 
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What are the odds some clown would put me all in after the flop with Jack sh-it when I flop a set of 77 2 hands later (had him covered) and runner runner a flush. Yeah variance can lick my taint.

Yeah tell me how to play that other than just fold when someone goes all in.
 
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What site you playing on Steve?
I wouldn't fold a winning hand after flop if i was you,I would shove it and hope for the best, they wont always suck out on you,eventually your hands will hold. Just keep doing the right play, dont fold hands just because you think they will suck out on you. Has i was typing this, i raised 2.5 BB UG with AK and some one went all in with AJ, he made a str8. I lost, so what, i made the right play and in the long run, it will pay off.
 
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Steve,
I was going to respond somewhat similiarly to how 'ohshootmybad' has responded (making notes on different things you've stated) but then as I began to pick apart the first post I realized it was going to get rather lengthy so instead I decided on a more concise approach....

Get better at poker! Seriously.
 
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2 more tournies ended early essentially the same way. KK flopped set again to rainbow board no ace. I get allin, runner runner flush yet again. Always these 2,3 and 4% winning. Yeah I suppose get better at poker. Are there books out there that explain how to stop getting fck'd at online poker.

Sorry but I see this as retarted. I could spend 5 years hooked up to a machine having the thoughts of the masters being injected into my brain, mastering poker, what fckn good would that do.

I play the beginning of these tournies super tight, the only way I'm going out is in precisely this way. The last one was with the KK. It was right after the hand I folded after the flop an AJ with a JK on the board.

Ya get better at poker, that's the answer
 
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I could not agree more. I am well aware of the math, but it is not 4%.
...You are well aware of the math, but you still don't get 4% or you don't think it's 4%. Shall I break it down for you?

To get a runner runner flush, a player would need to hit their flush card on the turn and the river. That is (10/47)*(9/46) = .21*.20 = .042 = 4.2%


When you get fckd over and over by suck outs and stupid consecutive turns and rivers in precisely the same position, you might think differently.
...I lose to suck outs all the time, it happens. I mean, technically, if your opponent gets it in with the worse hand, the only way they can win is by sucking out. It's still not that big of a deal and here is why:

1. If you opponent has any equity, they have a chance to win. It's just mathematics. It doesn't matter if it's 1% equity, they still have a chance.

2. It's variance. MTTs are filled with them. You are going to lose and get knocked out a bunch of times. Get used to it or stop playing MTTs with the idea that you're going to never sucked out on or you're going to win every MTT you enter.

3. You don't need to cash in or win every MTT to show a profit. I've played ~210 MTTs on SportsBetting with buy-ins ranging from $0-$1.60. My current ITM is ~14%, so I have only cashed in ~29 MTTs w/ and busted out of ~181. I even went on a ~40 MTT downswing as well, because of variance. However, my ROI is 126%. So, while I have busted out of a lot of MTTs, I'm still showing a profit.


What I see in 3 hours, I would not see in a year live.
...You probably would.

You can call it variance if you wish, but the fixed ship has sailed many years ago.
...What's fixed? The suck outs? Do you really think they got it out for you?

"Yeah! I'm gonna make sure this random player out of thousands loses their .25 buy-in with a bad beat!"

Please.


Only thing truly random in online poker is the 2 hole cards the community are dealt. (Proven, tested and admitted) Not one site presently has agreed to have tested by authorities the randomness the cards dealt to the community board.

Also sites have gone to great lengths to avoid being subjected to any form of regulation or testing.

A number of sites gave up US players altogether rather than agree to be tested beyond the hole cards of the players.

You are only fooling yourself believing it to be random or variance.
...You're a fool to think that a game is fixed and has it out for you as a micro stakes player. They must really be desperate to always fix a game so you lose your .25 buy-in.

There be why I fold on the bubble holding the same cards with 2 left to come. Been there done that bought that bumper sticker and maybe patience will provide me another opportunity but only once all the cards are down. Yeah I know it's stupid, but as I was trying to explain, this is the kind of stupid poker I feel forced into.
..."Patience will provide me with another opportunity" and yet, you fold the one that was given to you.

You weren't forced into doing anything, you did it because you play scared poker. You're afraid of losing. You'd rather take the safe route and ensure you min-cash because you're afraid of getting your money in a good spot and losing.

Here is a tip from an MTT player: min-cashing is insignificant. You aren't going to show a long term profit by just constantly min-cashing. It might make you feel good as a player, min-cashing a lot, but if you're looking to make a profit, it's just not possible because a) variance and b) rake.


And as I sit looking at the stats of my many thousands of hands, AJos still ranking number 1 by a 2-1 margin over AA. Q2os still holding in the top 10. AKs has only returned chips once. All in from the button everyone folded. Normally it's called and is dead in the water. Dozens of attempts to get chips back with AKs have all been futile. 10 2os ranks 35 hands above and it's only a limp from the BB.
...ooh, throwing out random numbers and stats! Mag-neat-o!

Are these supposed to be significant? Are these all from one game? Every game you've played?

Odds of being dealt AJ is 82:1 while AA is 221:1, so yeah, you've probably played AJ a lot more. As far as the other hands, have they all been played an equal amount of times ?Saying Q2o is in the top 10 is meaningless if you've only played it once and it won a huge pot.
above.
 
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ph_il

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2 more tournies ended early essentially the same way. KK flopped set again to rainbow board no ace. I get allin, runner runner flush yet again. Always these 2,3 and 4% winning. Yeah I suppose get better at poker. Are there books out there that explain how to stop getting fck'd at online poker.
...Well, you can improve your outlook on it. Just because you lost doesn't mean you're a bad player or poker is rigged. Again, it's variance.

Another way too look at is "I got my money in a +EV spot and lost. It happenes, but if I keep making +EV plays, I'll profit in the long run."

Proof: I'm an MTT player, this is what I do, how I think, and I'm showing a profit. And what's the difference between me and you? We're both micro-stakes MTT players. Do you think that I some how got lucky and the game isn't 'fixed' against me? I still go on huge downswings and bust out of a lot games, so that isn't it.

Maybe its the difference in attitude and how we look at things. You seem to be focused on the negative; on the losses, the bad beats, the downswings, the money lost, etc. And that's just silly. You cannot be an MTT player and not have any of that happen, so to negatively focus on what is guaranteed to happen is just a waste of your time.


Sorry but I see this as retarted. I could spend 5 years hooked up to a machine having the thoughts of the masters being injected into my brain, mastering poker, what fckn good would that do.
...Well, it would definitely plug some of your leaks. They definitely wouldn't fold AK on an AKx board...

Do you think that pro players are not subjected to bad beats and suckouts? Because they are. No one can control variance and no one can control what another player chooses to do. So, why even get worked up over it? Just make +EV decisions, plug your leaks, and you'll profit.


I play the beginning of these tournies super tight, the only way I'm going out is in precisely this way. The last one was with the KK. It was right after the hand I folded after the flop an AJ with a JK on the board.
...Well, yeah. If you get your money in with a strong hand against a weaker hand, the only way you can lose is if they suck out. That's a given.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you folded KK to an AJK board? Or was the previous hand an AJ and you folded to a JKx board?


Ya get better at poker, that's the answer
...Yes. It is. I don't start turning a profit because I'm lucky. I did it because I improved my game, attitude, thinking, and got better at poker.
above.
 
Ezekiel162

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I'm gonna take everything that ohshootmybad has said on this thread... print it out... put it in my book... and call it Gospel...:D
I don't know if Steve is convinced... but I know for now that I am...
+1 'mybad... I don't think you could have stated things more succinctly...
 
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you mean the Turn delay? If that is the case I have felt it to be so long when its a showdown... and the river comes in an instant compared to the river...
 
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I'm gonna take everything that ohshootmybad has said on this thread... print it out... put it in my book... and call it Gospel...:D
I don't know if Steve is convinced... but I know for now that I am...
+1 'mybad... I don't think you could have stated things more succinctly...
Out of curiosity, what really stood out for you?

Can I get a copy of that book?
 
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