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acemenow
Legend
Bronze Level
I'd say your perspective is myopic.
First of all, what you perceive as "too much" may or may not be valid.
Maybe you only see your side of the story.
Example hero plays aggressively and in more pots than they "should" be in, perhaps they are on a good run perhaps they are betting with air. Villain has plenty of outs and happy to call down the hero. Should the villain believe hero doesn't bluff?
Sometimes implied odds make the calls worth it sometimes not, either way, everyone makes decisions with partial information and plays as they see fit.
Second if in fact you are correct and simply giving an objective statement due to what you observe and its spot on (just as possible), then you want those people playing against you as much as possible. Since you will win more in the long run assuming your GTO implemented game is as tight as you think it is.
Only people that should be "banned" from poker are those playing with money they can't afford to lose IMO.
First of all, what you perceive as "too much" may or may not be valid.
Maybe you only see your side of the story.
Example hero plays aggressively and in more pots than they "should" be in, perhaps they are on a good run perhaps they are betting with air. Villain has plenty of outs and happy to call down the hero. Should the villain believe hero doesn't bluff?
Sometimes implied odds make the calls worth it sometimes not, either way, everyone makes decisions with partial information and plays as they see fit.
Second if in fact you are correct and simply giving an objective statement due to what you observe and its spot on (just as possible), then you want those people playing against you as much as possible. Since you will win more in the long run assuming your GTO implemented game is as tight as you think it is.
Only people that should be "banned" from poker are those playing with money they can't afford to lose IMO.
takinitSLEAZEE
Legend
Loyaler
There's an old move that comes to mind for dealing w/drawing players... it's called a check raise. Try it some time. As far as a player being banned for betting on a draw is preposterous. Plus I have to side w/the villain, here, 'cuz winning a nice pot w/air is one of the great joys of playing poker. You might, also, want to re-evaluate the amount of your buy-in. Micro, low, and freeroll games are riddled w/players trying to get some $ back. Just a thought. GL.
elJenio8
Rock Star
Silver Level
Well, that should be good for you that someone do that.. If you have a real hand you are gonna win a lot of chips..
Just call down and if he hit it, you fold..
Is simple..
And people who play like that are easy to bluff in other spots
Just call down and if he hit it, you fold..
Is simple..
And people who play like that are easy to bluff in other spots
ldw22
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yeesh, think some peeps are being a bit harsh on the OP, here... Although I'm saying this because I ASSUME s/he was joking about wanting those players banned - to me, that comment seemed like just a bit of hyperbole to express the frustration of losing hands to players who call with draws when they're given TERRIBLE odds to call, but then get lucky, beat the odds and make their winning hand.
Most of us know those players are profitable for us in the long-run, but it doesn't stop it being irritating on occasions when they do suck out - especially if (for example) it costs you your tournament life.
I will say this to you, though, midget: there's a big difference between a villain calling with terrible odds on their draw, and a villain leading out with a big bet when they have poor immediate odds of making their hand. Semi-bluffing with outs can be a very powerful weapon in the card shark's arsenal.
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Yeesh, think some peeps are being a bit harsh on the OP, here... Although I'm saying this because I ASSUME s/he was joking about wanting those players banned - to me, that comment seemed like just a bit of hyperbole to express the frustration of losing hands to players who call with draws when they're given TERRIBLE odds to call, but then get lucky, beat the odds and make their winning hand.
Most of us know those players are profitable for us in the long-run, but it doesn't stop it being irritating on occasions when they do suck out - especially if (for example) it costs you your tournament life.
I will say this to you, though, midget: there's a big difference between a villain calling with terrible odds on their draw, and a villain leading out with a big bet when they have poor immediate odds of making their hand. Semi-bluffing with outs can be a very powerful weapon in the card shark's arsenal.
Correct. This is tournament style btw but a draw is just that - you hope for a card to come and the chances are most of the time it won't. If you have a pair and are also drawing a flush, I get that. You might not be currently leading, but you know you have a chance you could be leading plus the card could come to complete a flush.
That, I can understand. It's when people don't understand the game and just randomly throw a bet out and it comes.
ldw22
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yep, I hear ya, it can be really rather tilting! We've just gotta keep telling ourselves "Variance evens out in the end, variance evens out in the end..." but that doesn't always succeed at keeping ME calm in spots like that!
TheNutz4You
Legend
Loyaler
This is exactly what you want them to do. Chase their draws and give you 1/2 to 3/4 of their stack when they miss, only to fold on the river and be left with 10bb. Of course they will hit their draw some of the time, but the other 80% of the time I am stacking up. Whats not to like?
Also just because someone is chasing a draw doesn't mean they have to hit said draw to win the hand. How many times have you called a flop or turn bet (with a draw) only to have them check the turn/river and give up? Guess what, that's a prime spot to steal the pot with a bluff.
Now there are some players that will call down and pay to see 5 cards no matter if they have 30% equity or if you told them they were drawing dead on the flop. Against them you bet big and you bet often.
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It rarely works like that in tournament play. Because by the time their luck runs out, they're massively stacked.
I often think I should stick to cash games and leave tournaments alone. If it wasn't for bad, I wouldn't get any luck! :-D
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lontrus
Rock Star
Silver Level
acemenow summed it up well. It's on you to understand when someone won't let go of his cards even if you have the advantage. Unless you have the absolute nuts, you're still entertaining a risk by shoving, no matter how small it may be.
Sometimes even 1-outers hit. It's kind of the point.
I don't mean to say you have to be paranoid as you play. Just be cautious and sensitive to what's going on at the table, the hand and in your head.
Sometimes even 1-outers hit. It's kind of the point.
I don't mean to say you have to be paranoid as you play. Just be cautious and sensitive to what's going on at the table, the hand and in your head.
TheNutz4You
Legend
Loyaler
The point still remains weather they have a 200bb stack or 20bb stack, let them call my big bets with 15% equity all day every day. I will take that 85% opportunity at winning a huge pot , and move on when that 3-4 outer hits the river for them.
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Not with the games I play. The game can end so quick that you just don't have the chance to get your own back. Now with cash games, they can get lucky but you get even in time. You just don't get the time in STT or MTT.
bkniefel
Visionary
Silver Level
Sometimes it pays off to bet with the draw. Especially if you have both a straight + a flush draw. Then people think either one and your odds of winning are obviously increased having both. Even more so if you have the nut flush. If you don't like them, you should call if you think that you have them beat. Hopefully you would have some of their outs by calling!
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horseshoebhole
Rock Star
Silver Level
I see your point. It can be mildly infuriating when youre betting top 2 or a set and are getting called down on 2 streets, only for them to get there on the river.
However - dont forget that when they are bombing on these draws they're chasing that one pot. Don't be the one to double them up and make them pay when you know they are. +$ in the long run.
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You can see people's win %. Mine is 17% which I think is decent. I got beat with someone who was on 7% and was throwing card around like they were going out of fashion.
The more tournaments I play the more I think cash games is the way to go. If I get beat it's cool - it's a one off. I'm still in the game and will beat them.
And I know I'm coming across as a real sore loser, but it is annoying when you lose to people who aren't as good as you. I know I'm a good player and when I get beat with good play I hold my hands up. No problem at all. But that has hardly happened in the last few weeks and I think cash games is the way to go.
Tournaments is asking for luck.
rrickir
Visionary
Platinum Level
I like to sometimes bet on draws especially when you have so many outs.. sometimes I will get a lot especially if I have flush draw and straight draws because often times you can still get people to fold. And then sometimes I don't even bet on my draw it really depends on so many other variables and factors and what's happening at that particular table also.. what really sucks is when you have a trillion outs and you bet on a draw and you get caller and then you don't hit any of your cards LOL
57noona
Legend
Bronze Level
Have to agree with you on this one. I don't think he is joking about this either.lol
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
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screamingmidget
Enthusiast
Silver Level
No you weren't joking that's the problem with guys like you. Cry and whine about how others play and how you play the best poker around and how unlucky you are?
Haha, you're a tit. This is the problem with people like you!
We've already had the sensible posters appreciate I was annoyed and appreciated that.
Cry and whine? What planet do you live on?
RasterGFX
Rock Star
Silver Level
OWWW! you sound like a politician but.....
This IS gambling Yes? You Bet you Don't Bet you have a draw you fail. What is your point? That someone that has a 10 5 off you get angry because they go all in and you fail? Seriously. We ARE GAMBLING. If you don't understand that maybe you shouldn't be playing Games of Chance (and Poker is Skill + Chance).
EDIT: If you aren't concerned about money ... or anything.... then Poker Is DEFF for you (as a Fish) but! If you have tons of free disposable cash? Please, I beg, Play against us (you, me, actual poker players) ... and don't set a hyper setup on the sites and maybe win a million here or there.. million... <<== Million dollar plays only work in backrooms and... (we've seen one wsop winner go down that way Yes?_)
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