This is a discussion on When to Leave the Table? within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; I notice that at every session I usually win some than loose some back.
I play Fixed-Limit at my Local Casino at the $30/$60 table
I notice that at every session I usually win some than loose some back.
I play Fixed-Limit at my Local Casino at the $30/$60 table and will always buy in with 20BB. At the $30/$60 table that is $1200.
The most I've ever won in one session is approximately 60BB. I was hitting hands after hands with opponents paying me off every time with the 2nd nuts. Too bad this only happened 3 times in my life and I played a lot.
Recently I have 2 sessions where I lost 60BB (F***ing Variance). I kept telling myself to leave the table, but I don't know how. After thinking through it I came up with this idea:
When to Leave the Table (move to a different table and start all over or just quit for the day):
1. Loosing 12BB. This is basically a Stop-Lost system. Let say I buy-in with $1200 (which is what I usually buy-in with at the $30/$60 table). If I loose $600 I'm out. If I win up to $1600 than loose back down to $1000 I'm out. The good thing about this system is you are guarantee to leave the table with money (at least half the money you brought to the table or more). I hate to leave a table empty wallet, but that will never happen again.
2. After Doubling Up. I buy-in with $1200 and will leave when my Stack reach $2400. Too often I double up only to loose back down after variance kick me in the face. I know it could be a bad idea to leave when you're winning, but sometime it's best not to be too greedy. I actually double up quite often, but I stayed and loose some back. Very rarely do I triple up.
3. Reaching the Halfway Point Than Loose Back Down Below the Halfway Point. Let me explain. Let's say I buy-in with $1200. I was lucky and win up to $1900. At this time I still haven't doubled up, but I have won 50% or more of my original buy-in. Unfortunately, my bad luck kicks in and I lost back down to $1700 in the next hand. I will get up and leave with my $500 profit (that's a lot of money).
*4*. Whenever I Feel That My Luck Has Run Out. This one is labeled differently because it doesn't always make sense, but sometime I feel like I'm only lucky in the beginning. I always start the session off winning hands. I believe my lucky only last the first hour or so into a session. I know that's superstition, but there's always superstition in Everything. It could be that I'm getting tired and loosing focus. I always try to leave with a profit even if it's just a small blind.
I know that in Poker no matter how good you are you still can't deny that there is luck involved. I have doubled up only to loose everything back plus some in a few sessions before. I believe I played everything as perfectly as I can. If I have only gotten up and leave I would have a $1200+ profit.
Those are my excuses to get up and walk away from any table. So far this system has helped me win back nearly all of the money I lost in those 2 bad sessions that happens almost back to back. Hopefully I can win enough to move up to $50/$100 soon (if you think about it this is kind of like a video game where you slowly work your way up to a more difficult level).
Please let me know what you guys think. Leaving the table when you're ahead or when you're supposed to is definitely apart of winning Poker. When and why do you guys leave a table or quit for the day? Or do you just play 24/7? LOL.
24th January 2012, 12:14 AM
Online Poker at: Carbon
Game: FR NLHE, STT
Ok, first-off you're playing WAY higher than I can anymore. I haven't played mid-stakes limit since the days when I lived in LA and could play there and in Vegas. Where I'm at now the only thing offered in the way of limit poker in my casinos are VERY low stakes, think like $2/4 and $3/6. At these levels I don't pay too much attention to BRM anymore.
But when I did play higher I pretty much followed the standard line of thought about stop-loss and stop-win systems. It's generally felt that stop-loss is a good idea and stop-win is a poor idea. The amounts you set for each of these is up to you and your bankroll.
Expanding on the idea of stop-loss.... It's generally good to leave the table IF you reach a pre-determined loss amount IF you got in that situation by (pick one, or several)... Not playing your best game, Getting fatigued/tired, Losing focus, Plain old being out-played, Getting tilty due to bad beats, Opponents adjusting to your game better than you are adjusting to theirs, etc, etc.
If you got in that situation by plain old bad beats and/or varience though (by this I mean you are generally getting your money in good, but are simply getting sucked-out on the river when the odds are on your side) , and IF you can handle this without getting tilty or having your play slip (a TALL order sometimes) then you can continue to play provided your bankroll can handle it.
Stop-win systems, on their own, are generally thought-of as a bad idea. Why would you leave a table if nothing has changed and you're beating the game? Having said this, realize that simple things like length of session ARE changes. If you're crushing the game but getting noticeably fatigued/tired/hungry/distracted that this IS a change.
Apart from all this are the psychological considerations. Back when I was playing for amounts that mattered, I would habitually pass-up several slightly favorable situations early in my session. Why? I found that if I started bad, that could sometimes affect my play for the rest of the night. Is such a move +EV? From a strictly theorhetical standpoint, no. Take every advantage you can get, whenever you can get it. From a real-world perspective (for me), yes, it IS +EV, because it keeps me from getting into a poor mindset early in a session.
This may be a similar situation to you and your need to leave each session with a profit. Of course we'd all like to do that, but beyond that, if its going to impact your mindset negatively by winning a lot early and losing it back late EVEN IF YOU MADE CORRECT PLAYS, then, by all means, quit when you're ahead. No shame in that. Mathematically may be the wrong choice if you continue to have an advantage on the table, but from a psychological point of view it may be the best play for you to keep you in the best frame of mind for when you sit back down in the future.
Sorry this is so long and rambling, but deciding when to stop playing has a lot of different factors for different players. So, the cliff's notes version is stop-loss generally good, stop-win (assuming no changes in game/mental state/etc) is generally bad.
25th January 2012, 6:02 PM
Poker at: Bovada
Your plan seems pretty good for me. You are way ahead of the game. The trick is to come up with these rules before you sit down in the game.
I really like how you lock up your win when you win 1/2 of your original stack. Great idea.
Any reason you buy in for 20 BB? Buy in for 12 BBs and you can go when you are broke.
25th January 2012, 6:24 PM
Game: 7 Stud
A lot of your strategy should depend on how good the game is. If you are playing good poker and losing, it might be worthwhile to play an additional buyin since the odds would turn in your favor especially if the opponents are betting and winning bad draws etc.
26th January 2012, 3:17 AM
Poker at: Lock Poker
I would leave when the game doesn't seem profitable anymore. I mean, if there is a huge spewtard just dumping money and he puts a bad beat on you, does it make sense to get up and walk away just because you lost some arbitrary amount of money like 12BBs? Now if losing 12BBs puts you on tilt and you won't play your best at that point, then I'd agree that you should get up and leave, but frankly if losing 12BBs is upsetting you enough that you aren't playing your A game after that, then you are probably playing higher than you are comfortable with.
26th January 2012, 4:22 AM
Online Poker at: Carbon
Game: FR NLHE, STT
re: Poker & When to Leave the Table?
Gotta say buying in super short, 12-15BB, is a terrible idea. Personally I always buy-in pretty deep, at least 50 if not 100BB for limit always at least 100BB for no-limit.
Couple of reasons. You want to be sure you can earn the max when you hit your monsters. You for sure want to make sure you have the weaker players covered. You want to have enough behind to be able to handle that big pot between 2 made hands and a big combo draw where the betting is capped every street.
Generally speaking, the more of an advantage that you feel you have over your opponents, the deeper you should play and you should hope they are playing deep-stacked as well.
26th January 2012, 5:30 AM
Poker at: ACR
I really like this post. I am already planning to note this on my phone before I hit up my next session.