When is it profitable to shove with any 2 cards?

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PW300

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I was playing in a tournament when I had aj suited on the button.blinds were 300/600. I had a stack of 7400 and one guy who had a stack of 28000 min raised to 1200. I decided to reraise and go all in pre flop and he called, showing k6 suited.
Flop was ak5 and turn was another rag and river gave him another king. I have read somewhere that sometimes it is profitable to call with any 2 cards. Is this one of those occasions or was I unlucky?
 
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donkcentralFF

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No he was calling 6x his original raise with a hand he knows he is behind and could possibly be totally dominated.. You made the right move and just got unlucky.. If your not shoving AJ with 12 bbs left... Well good luck not getting blinded out
 
thetick33

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u were unlucky but is also how you feel about playing in a hole. I dont know if i push here cause is other factors the first is where are we at money wise? I don't push unless must till im in money. If whole game ive been behind I might risk a move like you did. If am playing well cards holding up id probably try to limp in here see a flop
 
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Nutcracker69

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I shove ATC every single hand of an MTT. It is an impossible strategy to beat.
 
Jblocher1

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Your play is fine unless it's like a raise from a super nit UTG. There are certain BvB spots where we can jam from SB with any two cards if BB is a super nit and we are for example on the bubble and you know he's worried about busting. There really needs to be very specific reads and dynamics to know we can shove ATC
 
PapaC

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Hi PW300 and welcome to Cardschat. I have one question about something I see a lot and it's something I just can't understand. He raises to 1200 and you could stand the raise, and could call to see the flop, so why go all in there when you can see the flop for way less and still be in the game if you don't hit. I've seen players who will raise all in even if there is a big raise before you and even if all you have is a low pair or a shitty A rag. All in is crazy because you are out of control of the whole hand. It's then a coin flip. and you have no way to get away from the hand and many times you will lose and there are a lot of hands you will also win. But I'm not trying to win with 55 vs AK. I will fold in a minute. But back to the top, AK raises the pot and you are BB with 55. Do you raise all in, or call if you can stand it? I've seen so many players who will go all in with that hand, and even if you know the raiser will call whatever you bet, but you shoot at the pot anyway. That is just throwing away your chips. Ok I'm done now LOL GL to you
 
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Broon1234

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Your play to shove all in that situation was correct. The guy who called was also likely correct. Assuming 10% Antes the pot is something like 12100 and he has to call 6200 so he's getting 2:1. You both played correctly but you got unlucky
 
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benspocket

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you played it right,just unlucky i would of played the same way
 
PapaC

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I don't see how that hand could be played correct. How many of you all would not call the raise instead of all in when it is way less and I can still keep myself in the game,and hope for some double ups. Please some one explain to me how that hand could be played right. He didn't even have a hand good enough to be going all in. against a pretty good raise before him, and that would make up my mind for me. I would be out of there real quick. This is just my opinion, and I'm not saying anything about anyone, But if you think about it several times and see what I'm talking about
 
jazzaxe

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It is not a bad hand to bet, but you are covered and have to win the hand. Villain is not likely to fold. Your stack size is not yet critical in relation to the blind. You seem to be favoring your position over his stack size, but your position advantage will favor you more after the flop. I think it is better to get your money in first and not have to reraise here.
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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I don't see how that hand could be played correct. How many of you all would not call the raise instead of all in when it is way less and I can still keep myself in the game,and hope for some double ups. Please some one explain to me how that hand could be played right. He didn't even have a hand good enough to be going all in. against a pretty good raise before him, and that would make up my mind for me. I would be out of there real quick. This is just my opinion, and I'm not saying anything about anyone, But if you think about it several times and see what I'm talking about



Calling here is bad despite being IP. We only have 12BB and we give ourselves major FE by just ripping, rather than flatting missing the flop 70% of the time and then having to check it down or fold to any raise he makes. When we shove and it gets through we increase our stack almost 33% or something without a showdown. AJ falls well within a range that we can jam 12BB over a min raise open. Hope this helps
 
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PW300

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Thanks for the advice. The reason I shoved was that I didn't think he had a particularly strong hand ( I was right as he had k6) and I thought he may fold it rather than risk calling a 12 bb raise. I was just more interested from his perspective to see if it is the right thing for him to call.
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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Thanks for the advice. The reason I shoved was that I didn't think he had a particularly strong hand ( I was right as he had k6) and I thought he may fold it rather than risk calling a 12 bb raise. I was just more interested from his perspective to see if it is the right thing for him to call.



His call is bad in this spot. Not even close to ATC he has to fold A10 here IMO (not saying that because u have AJ) your shove is strong looking so I expect calls from AJ+. K6 definitely not
 
MsNutHand

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Serious??? And you have gotten any FT shoving ATC during all the tournament? what is your percentage of ITMs and what type of MTT and SNG you normally play and where?:jd4:

I shove ATC every single hand of an MTT. It is an impossible strategy to beat.
 
Dutchtegon

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not with any cards ofcourse, it depands on how much big blinds you still have. If you have 4 big blinds of less, than yes. Shove with any cards preflop. If you have more you could wait 1 or 2 hand, but not much more.
 
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Dan Lucas

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Every pro I know would shove exactly the same as you did with 12bb and a big stack raising the minimum. His call was a total donk move, and he got lucky. It happens, and he probably got his stack by playing the same garbage. This crap happens all the time in these MTT's. Don't let the result get you down. In the long run, your move against this specific kind of player is profitable.
 
Gabinho12345

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You played it best you could, just got unlucky.
 
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yurok42

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I think a fold would not be a mistake!
 
milka1605

milka1605

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Both ways are good.
1 call and see the flop.
2. Allin.
And perhaps this - fold.
 
Michel_11

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I don't think his call it fits in the case where sometimes it is profitable to call with any two cards. I think if you had a total of 4, 5, 6 BBs and return 3bet all in, in this case yes he should call with any two cards because he has already left 2 BB on the table, there is no fold to more 2, 3 , 4 BBs ... But you had 12 BB's, he made the call risking 10 BB's, I don't think he did the right play, in his place I would fold with this hand.
 
milencenov

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The hand he has is IRRELEVANT at the time you make your decision !

You don't know it.

You can only guess what possible hands he might have.

You did not even think and shoved.

A-J is not the Master of the Universe.

It is dominated by AK and AQ, very tricky against KQ, and a slight underdog against lower pocket pairs (huge underdog against JJ and higher).

Considering the raise, you could have called.

Catchning a J or an A could well direct your play on the flop.

He will C-Bet for sure. Even with a middle pair only.

You would go all in on the flop with top pair.

He would be pot committed and will anyway call.

He will have 5 outs for 20% chance till the river.

And he will hit.

That would be a bad beat.

But shoving A-J preflop is just accepting the possible variance, even if you are 60/40 favourite theoretically.
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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I have seen many times a lot of people playing any two cards , I would say most of the times were donkeys shoving big stacks while playing bingo .
Generally if you are the bigger stack you can play a wider range of cards and sometimes when you can you shove with so many cards you give the impression you go all in with ATC , as sb mentioned before if you have good reads you can do this to steal blinds , but having a bigger stack I guess always helps .
If you have the lowest stack you can go all in ATC when you have one/two blinds I guess :D Choose right ,shove and gl.
 
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