When do we start believing our opponent?

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pokeherfreak

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I've been bleeding a lot of money just because I never believe my opponent when he raises big and I have a decent hand( top pair, top kicker). It turns out most times they have trips or better.
Should I just fold my top pair and wait for a better hand when my opponent goes all in on a board where he could only represent trips or 2 pairs?( no flush or straight draw), even though he might be bluffing?
 
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jsh169

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NO offense, but your essentially asking how to play poker. Instead of a very broad generalization post specific hands. Tptk should be good quite a bit of the time, every time? Of course not, never? Of course not.
 
TimovieMan

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That's why you can rarely get more than two streets of value off a TPTK hand.

Maybe do some research on pot control?

Also, getting check-raised on the turn is rarely a bluff at the lower stakes, as is getting raised on the river.
 
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theevildub

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first rule of poker ... never believe your opponents.

Poker is a game of deception. Your enemies are always trying to trick you.
 
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pokeherfreak

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Thank you, guys. Poker is a bloody hard game.
 
pauloprcds

pauloprcds

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NO offense, but your essentially asking how to play poker. Instead of a very broad generalization post specific hands. Tptk should be good quite a bit of the time, every time? Of course not, never? Of course not.
THIS ..






post some hands, talk about the opponents, what you know, what you don't now, what you think you know ..
And again, post some hands, would be better to analize, but each spot is unique, and plays different.
And remember, esch person is unique too, and normally could play different too, so if you post some spots, I'm sure you'll find very different touches and analysis
;)
 
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KALUGAJ

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I think a good player does not play every hand the same way, needs to be variable, so the time to believe that once there
 
Yermek

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I'm trying to get a piece of candy is not much investing in the bank and then raise rates. Sometimes it is necessary to dump the hand if there is a suspicion that there is a better hand
 
ismagul

ismagul

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poker players never tell the truth about their hand
 
dbchristy

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I think everyone is lying..lol usually their bet online is what I go by..and if they been caught recently
 
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B1BOMBER

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One of the guys at our neighborhood game said its in the rules somewhere that you can't tell the truth at the poker table. That said you need to use good judgement. Top pair won't always win. You need to learn to read the board and calculate the odds of being beat.:D
 
luiaguila

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sometimes we just fold and not fall into that hole that you always have good hands but I lose learn to control the well and know when etirarse not be afraid to retire
 
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moosepaw

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I think some others hit on it, but it's VERY important for you to get a feel for how your opponents bet. If they're betting much more frequently than the probability of getting decent hands, then there's a good chance they're playing very aggro and it's someones turn to take advantage of it (by setting a trap).

Lots of different strategies, I'd encourage to really play a lot more to get the intuition more naturally, or start memorizing specific poker hands odds (starting hand odds, my hold cards % win vs opponent hole card % win, etc...)
 
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pokeherfreak

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Fo example they call my raise and all of a sudden go all in on the river when they hit a set. I have top pair and it's hard for me to believe them.
 
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dejan85

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when you lose big pot or stake in tournament than you believe in you opponent....
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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That's why you can rarely get more than two streets of value off a TPTK hand.

Maybe do some research on pot control?

Also, getting check-raised on the turn is rarely a bluff at the lower stakes, as is getting raised on the river.

This

Plus when they mash the pot bet or pot raise button, you insta fold TPTK and high five the cat.

Make notes on the other players, I just abv it to pbh (pot bet is a strong hand). Though in reality you dont even need to put this note down as it goes without saying. Most of the bad regs at the micros just mash pot bet when they make their hand, they do this because the recs will still pay them off.

I think I just put it down in their notes so it reminds me to re-evaluate my top two pair or set type hands when bad regs bet huge.

Just be glad they are telling you they have the best hand.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Just thought I would back up my comment with an example I took from tonight

Hero is myself
Villain 1 bad reg
Villain 2 unknown rec

I am in the BB and its limped to the flop. I am second to act and bet 3/4 pot for value, as at this point I think I likely have the best hand and other kings will call. However as soon as the bad reg mashes the huge raise its an easy fold. If you are wondering why, its simple thought process.

What hands would a bad reg both limp pre and raise huge on the flop with?

Pretty much either going to be nailed down to 88,22 and possibly K8s. Do we beat any of them? no......so we fold.

OP, lesson for you here is not thinking about the cards you have, ie lols 2 pair. Its about what range of hands x type of villain would be raising with.

That simple.

Of course if the player is an unknown or a spewtard, our thought process could be different.

Hope that is of some use.
 

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tocloc238

tocloc238

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Ref spewtards, especially rich ones....I hate getting bluffed by some rich whale that decides to sit in a 1/2 game- only game available (he normally plays min $1k+ a hand at baccarat), so he could care less about a few hundred dollars. Puts me on tilt! :(
 
BogdanStark

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I've been bleeding a lot of money just because I never believe my opponent when he raises big and I have a decent hand( top pair, top kicker). It turns out most times they have trips or better.
Should I just fold my top pair and wait for a better hand when my opponent goes all in on a board where he could only represent trips or 2 pairs?( no flush or straight draw), even though he might be bluffing?

This is typical beginners mistake. If you can't read your opponents you need believe to any big raises them made. Look, what is huge raises are:
1. Opponent is a FISH
2. Opponent having middle hand want grab preflop bank
3. Opponent get monsters pocket hand and pushed to have nice value
 
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pokeherfreak

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Thank you, Bogdan. My biggest losses are AA or KK vs sets. I just can't fold these cards. Can you?
 
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Dan Lucas

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I've been bleeding a lot of money just because I never believe my opponent when he raises big and I have a decent hand( top pair, top kicker). It turns out most times they have trips or better.
Should I just fold my top pair and wait for a better hand when my opponent goes all in on a board where he could only represent trips or 2 pairs?( no flush or straight draw), even though he might be bluffing?

I hope this isn't repetitive, but if you are playing many of the same opponents, keep notes on them. Make note of who is aggressive and bets strong with weak hands; who telegraphs their monsters by betting the same way every time; what kind of ranges do they play; especially note players who always bet their strong hands slowly, and bet their bluffs big. I read in another forum that you should play the player, not the cards. I hope this makes some sense.
 
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galojmi

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Never believe on your opponents..everyone is lying...!!
 
UpUpAway

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If I haven't noted a players play, I just assume with position they'll have a tendency to lie.
 
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Dan Lucas

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Very interesting thought. If I don't know a player, I assume that they are playing big hands, exact opposite of UpUpAway. For me, it seemed that every time I thought they were bluffing, they had it. But that was my experience. Yours may have been different than mine.
 
mbrenneman0

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Very interesting thought. If I don't know a player, I assume that they are playing big hands, exact opposite of UpUpAway. For me, it seemed that every time I thought they were bluffing, they had it. But that was my experience. Yours may have been different than mine.

This.

although there are sometimes ways to spot a bluff even if you dont know the player and they are betting from early position.

today i called a bluff when i had pocket 10s in position against villain. I open raise preflop and the flop came with 8c8s6d. villain makes pot size bet, i raise 2x, villain calls. turn is 6d. villain bets half pot, i call. river is 5d. there are now 3 diamonds on the board and two pairs on the board, making any two diamonds, or any 8 or 6 into a boat. villain bets 1/3 pot. i raise to half pot size, villain shoves and i call and took down a 300bb pot. I called because although I played very few hands with him, i noticed that he entered the pot only twice since i sat down and was likely to be playing face cards. I had a loose table image, so he thought i would call him down with any two cards. he would have bet-raised on the flop if he made a strong hand and he barreled all three streets which he wouldn't have done on a flushdraw. he tried to bluff out of position on the flop and when i played back at him, he didnt want to appear weak so he tried to continue aggression when he didnt have control of the pot.



if a player is a nit, it is very easy to put them on a range. when the board doesnt coordinate with their range or show a flush draw early on, then any bet they make is probably either going to be pocket pair or a bluff. if the opponent is loose agressive, you have to have a good hand to beat them because their range is so wide that almost any board could possibly be good for them.

This doesn't mean go wild and call anything.
 
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