What should I DO with this Hand ??

GGC2912 · Feb 28, 2014

I am playing a $3.30 buy-in tournament........its in break now

I've hit Pocket Twos 3 times in 56mins in the tournament play

Twice I was MP and once I was SB (Thanks to the sticky thread I know what MP means lol)

So, out of three times, twice (from MP) I just called the BB and missed on the flop but the third time when I was SB, the BB raised to 4BB and I called it, got lucky and hit a 2 on the Flop. And now only Sb and BB in play. All rest folded.

Then, post-flop, I bet 1/2 pot, he called.
Turn, there is a possible straight and a flush draw
Then I bet 3/4 pot, he folds.

I won yayyy

Please tell me if I played this well or I could have played better or what would you have done in the same position.

Thank you

PS: I'm loving how I can come running to you guys with a question like a kid runs to his teacher :stupido2:

BearPlay · Feb 28, 2014

It depends

Set mining is profitable in the early stages, when blinds are low. My play is to call with a low to medium pp and then fold if I don't set on the flop.

As blinds escalate, it's usually no longer profitable to set mine, so you have to change up to where you either raise or fold with pp, and all of that depends upon a lot of other factors.

Best

P.S. We'll keep this between you and us that you came here for advice

vinylspiros · Feb 28, 2014

when u say the third time that the BB raised to 4BB and you were in the small blind, does that mean you just called preflop and big blind raised to 4BB?

If you limped, thats not good . We always want to enter the pot with raising. even min raising is fine.

Post flop, it looks ok.

GGC2912 · Feb 28, 2014

vinylspiros said:
when u say the third time that the BB raised to 4BB and you were in the small blind, does that mean you just called preflop and big blind raised to 4BB?

If you limped, thats not good . We always want to enter the pot with raising. even min raising is fine.

Post flop, it looks ok.

Yes, I just called pre-flop and then called his raise

I dint really have the guts to raise with a pair of 2

vinylspiros · Feb 28, 2014

GGC2912 said:
Yes, I just called pre-flop and then called his raise

I to dint really have the gutsraise with a pair of 2

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You know what they say right? NO GUTS NO GLORY

dasher · Feb 28, 2014

vinylspiros said:
when u say the third time that the BB raised to 4BB and you were in the small blind, does that mean you just called preflop and big blind raised to 4BB?

If you limped, thats not good . We always want to enter the pot with raising. even min raising is fine.

Post flop, it looks ok.

I don't agree with this. He's on the BB and closes the betting. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree that if he is first in, he should raise or fold. Small pairs don't play well in early position.

vinylspiros · Feb 28, 2014

dasher said:
I don't agree with this. He's on the BB and closes the betting. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree that if he is first in, he should raise or fold. Small pairs don't play well in early position.

You have obviously misread the hand. Hero is sb, he limps and bb raises to 4X.

torosanti012 · Feb 28, 2014

Yeah, it's always good to hit a set; all you have to consider is : is it going to be profitable on the long run i.e. pot odds, and also think about other factors about how much of your stack are you putting in, the bigger your stack is the easier it is to call with pocket pairs. So overall you can play these kind of hands the way you want, just try to consider the factors at the table. Sometimes you might just take a gamble, so there's a lot of way you could play these hands.

GWU73 · Mar 1, 2014

It is generally better to open raise to steal, but if you know this guy is likely to build a pot limping is not bad. This guy raised so he was the agressor. You either want your donk bet to look bluffy, or you want to let him try to take the pot. Betting small is a bad idea. I suggest bet bigger on the flop with an A or K showing, consider check raising any flop that is draw heavy, and maybe just call if the flop is ragged then building a pot on the turn.

Diogo Jorge · Mar 1, 2014

GGC2912 said:
I am playing a $3.30 buy-in tournament........its in break now
I've hit Pocket Twos 3 times in 56mins in the tournament play

Twice I was MP and once I was SB (Thanks to the sticky thread I know what MP means lol)

So, out of three times, twice (from MP) I just called the BB and missed on the flop but the third time when I was SB, the BB raised to 4BB and I called it, got lucky and hit a 2 on the Flop. And now only Sb and BB in play. All rest folded.

Then, post-flop, I bet 1/2 pot, he called.
Turn, there is a possible straight and a flush draw
Then I bet 3/4 pot, he folds.

I won yayyy

Please tell me if I played this well or I could have played better or what would you have done in the same position.

Thank you

PS: I'm loving how I can come running to you guys with a question like a kid runs to his teacher :stupido2:

i think it was nice from you but i'd just betted 2/3 of the pot instead of 1/2.
What do you think about my idea?

Four Dogs · Mar 1, 2014

GGC2912 said:
Yes, I just called pre-flop and then called his raise

I dint really have the guts to raise with a pair of 2

Would you have raised with something like ATo? It's the same thing, in both cases you're likely to have the best starting hand, the best hand after the flop and the best hand when checked to the river. Basically, it's likely to be the best hand until you have reason to believe it isn't. Beginners, (and alot of other players to be honest) are afraid to play low pairs for anything other than set value because they don't know what to do with them post flop. In a multi way pot this makes some sense. VS 2 opponents 22 is behind after the flop about 55% of the time making it very difficult to play out of position for anything other than set value. But HU or in position, it's another matter all together. Raising preflop buys you respect postflop and gives you additional ways to win the pot without improving. You may win the pot outright (and HU BvB this is likely), or when your opponent calls you with rags and misses the flop (as he will 2/3 of the time) he'll often fold to a C-bet. When he calls with a pair or even flops bottom or middle pair he'll often fold to an over pair and almost always to an ace. If he calls a c-bet on a draw heavy board there's a good chance you can check it down or even pick off a bluff when he whiffs out. And oh yeah, when you raise preflop you'll get less credit for a strong hand when you do flop a set. There's nothing sweeter than getting called preflop with a small pair and smashing an ace high flop.

Most players hold their chips far too dear, don't be that way. Your chips are not money, they're tools. Don't be chicken, put them to use. Go ahead and raise but choose your battles wisely. If you get action then reevaluate. If you think you should fold then fold and don't sweat a few chips.

BearPlay · Mar 1, 2014

Four Dogs said:
Most players hold their chips far too dear, don't be that way. Your chips are not money, they're tools. Don't be chicken, put them to use. Go ahead and raise but choose your battles wisely. If you get action then reevaluate. If you think you should fold then fold and don't sweat a few chips.

This is the best advice that I've heard in a while, especially that "your chips are tools". Thank you. I have been playing low to medium pp way too conservatively HU

Arjonius · Mar 2, 2014

torosanti012 said:
the bigger your stack is the easier it is to call with pocket pairs.

Since set mining relies upon implied odds, it's more about effective stack size than your stack size.

GGC2912 · Mar 2, 2014

Four Dogs said:
Would you have raised with something like ATo? It's the same thing, in both cases you're likely to have the best starting hand, the best hand after the flop and the best hand when checked to the river. Basically, it's likely to be the best hand until you have reason to believe it isn't. Beginners, (and alot of other players to be honest) are afraid to play low pairs for anything other than set value because they don't know what to do with them post flop. In a multi way pot this makes some sense. VS 2 opponents 22 is behind after the flop about 55% of the time making it very difficult to play out of position for anything other than set value. But HU or in position, it's another matter all together. Raising preflop buys you respect postflop and gives you additional ways to win the pot without improving. You may win the pot outright (and HU BvB this is likely), or when your opponent calls you with rags and misses the flop (as he will 2/3 of the time) he'll often fold to a C-bet. When he calls with a pair or even flops bottom or middle pair he'll often fold to an over pair and almost always to an ace. If he calls a c-bet on a draw heavy board there's a good chance you can check it down or even pick off a bluff when he whiffs out. And oh yeah, when you raise preflop you'll get less credit for a strong hand when you do flop a set. There's nothing sweeter than getting called preflop with a small pair and smashing an ace high flop.

Most players hold their chips far too dear, don't be that way. Your chips are not money, they're tools. Don't be chicken, put them to use. Go ahead and raise but choose your battles wisely. If you get action then reevaluate. If you think you should fold then fold and don't sweat a few chips.

Awesome

You just made this thread far more valuable to us noobs

Thank you very much

Four Dogs · Mar 3, 2014

GGC2912 said:
Awesome

You just made this thread far more valuable to us noobs
Thank you very much

You're very welcome noob.

BearPlay · Mar 3, 2014

Arjonius said:
Since set mining relies upon implied odds, it's more about effective stack size than your stack size.

Thanks for this inspiration to research implied odds when dealing with pp. Helps a lot!

Also I found this great video of profitable set mining in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=czcJUOLHxYM

dasher · Mar 3, 2014

That video show us.... he gets paid off because of his loose image plus his opponent hitting TPTK. Sometimes you only get a small pot because no one has anything to bet with.

punctual · Mar 18, 2014

I will sometimes place a larger than normal bet with pocket 2's so that everyone will fold. Sometimes everyone but 1 single person folds and he or she is usually on a draw (like AK or AQ). And we all know that a large number of hand iterations will tend toward favoring 22 over AK or AQ. 22 is still something and if AK or AQ do not connect on the flop, turn or river, then they just amount to Ace high!

TeUnit · Mar 18, 2014

can you get paid enuf if you hit trips? or can you make them fold with raise or cbet? think those are the questions to ask without knowing stack depth, villian stats, or tourney equity

Poker Orifice · Mar 18, 2014

vinylspiros said:
If you limped, thats not good . We always want to enter the pot with raising. even min raising is fine.

Post flop, it looks ok.

I disagree.. .without knowing the stack sizes we can't really say for sure (as far as preflop goes.... ie. say we're on ~16-20bb stack, this might be a good spot to LRRAI here in SB w 22... 'it depends').

I also disagree with postflop 'looking ok'. First off, without knowing stack sizes we can't really say for sure, along with our prior history of BvB play vs. opponent (& btw... whether or not we've had 22 300x so far in the tournament it really doesn't matter & has no bearing on the hand unless villain's seen what we've shown down, etc. etc.).
Again though without knowing the stack sizes (of us & villain vs. the size of the blinds) I can't say for sure what might be the optimal play here in this spot (also without reads on villain) but I will ask "Why are we donking into the raiser here?" I know we have flopped a set but isn't it likely that villain is cbetting here when we check to the raiser?

I'd consider leading into the raiser here after Limp/calling pre if we assume that villain thinks we're a huge fish (which he might because we did limp/call pre BvB) & then followed up by donking out... ) in hopes of them re-raising us on the flop.
I think to just keep it simple we're likely better off to just check/call the flop (depending upon the board) & then maybe lead turn (again depending on) as it'll look somewhat fishy & may help us to get paid off.

You really need to give a few more specifics on the hand in order to give the best response to it. Even if it is just a $3 mtt..... some players are 'thinking'.. some are not (player reads are important). Also it's crucial to give stack size info.

vinylspiros · Mar 20, 2014

Poker Orifice said:
I disagree.. .without knowing the stack sizes we can't really say for sure (as far as preflop goes.... ie. say we're on ~16-20bb stack, this might be a good spot to LRRAI here in SB w 22... 'it depends').

I also disagree with postflop 'looking ok'. First off, without knowing stack sizes we can't really say for sure, along with our prior history of BvB play vs. opponent (& btw... whether or not we've had 22 300x so far in the tournament it really doesn't matter & has no bearing on the hand unless villain's seen what we've shown down, etc. etc.).
Again though without knowing the stack sizes (of us & villain vs. the size of the blinds) I can't say for sure what might be the optimal play here in this spot (also without reads on villain) but I will ask "Why are we donking into the raiser here?" I know we have flopped a set but isn't it likely that villain is cbetting here when we check to the raiser?

I'd consider leading into the raiser here after Limp/calling pre if we assume that villain thinks we're a huge fish (which he might because we did limp/call pre BvB) & then followed up by donking out... ) in hopes of them re-raising us on the flop.
I think to just keep it simple we're likely better off to just check/call the flop (depending upon the board) & then maybe lead turn (again depending on) as it'll look somewhat fishy & may help us to get paid off.

You really need to give a few more specifics on the hand in order to give the best response to it. Even if it is just a $3 mtt..... some players are 'thinking'.. some are not (player reads are important). Also it's crucial to give stack size info.

Well yea, if your going to break it down like that , then sure. thats why i just said it looks "ok".

+1 to PO's post here.

What should I DO with this Hand ??

GGC2912

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