What Was I thinking

First this isn't a BB, Nor is it to get it Analyzed, It's to Figure out why Did I do what I did! I know your all gonna say well 4 bet Preflop, and your all right/Correct in saying that much...I compounded error upon Error, and I'm not seeing the reason as to Why I did such Idiotic Mistakes, It's easy to say well I'll do this, and I'll change that but it's a Pattern with me (I noticed this much , And I'm not reasoning as to why I'm not changing up this pattern)...So I'm here trying to see why I do such things...Maybe You all have been having such patterns in your Games before and have figured out the Reason as to why You use to do such things Before, and Can Help me Find out a Rational Reason for why I'm doing this?

poker stars Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 8 players - View hand 1342567
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): t11150 M = 8.58
BTN: t15470 M = 11.90
SB: t3145 M = 2.42
BB: t2645 M = 2.03
UTG: t6000 M = 4.62
UTG+1: t12807 M = 9.85
MP1: t1005 M = 0.77
MP2: t15604 M = 12.00

Pre Flop: (t1300) Hero is CO with K :club: K :spade:
3 folds, MP2 raises to t1800, Hero calls t1800, 3 folds

Flop: (t4900) J :spade: A :heart: T :diamond: (2 players)
MP2 bets t1800, Hero calls t1800

Turn: (t8500) 2 :club: (2 players)
MP2 bets t3600, Hero folds

Hi naruto, you obviously know that you made a mistake not re raising in the first place. I am reading between the lines abit hear, but do you have a fear of the ace coming on the flop when you have big hand likes kings or are trying to make more money with your big hands by just flat calling. Dont make it cheap for your opponent when you have hands like this.

I make errors like this when I'm multitabling MTTs at 5am - maybe that was the reason ?

ariesj11 said:

Hi naruto, you obviously know that you made a mistake not re raising in the first place. I am reading between the lines abit hear, but do you have a fear of the ace coming on the flop when you have big hand likes kings or are trying to make more money with your big hands by just flat calling. Dont make it cheap for your opponent when you have hands like this.

Click to expand...

Your right (That's the problem with me), But why am I having these Negative thoughts...It's these thoughts which A) Make Sure I can't/Don't Improve my game, and it's these same thoughts that Keep me only Min Cashing or Winning Little Peanuts, and I don't know when they started or why they started, but I do know I need to Change it up though

grafkarow said:

I make errors like this when I'm multitabling MTTs at 5am - maybe that was the reason ?

Click to expand...

Game was Way Early in the day for starters , and B, It was the only one I had going at the time , and C-It was a Free Roll too boot, and I still played it so Horrible

Well it sounds to me that you realize that you know where you are making your mistakes. All you have to do is to be a little more aggressive especially late in a tournament as starting requirements are not so high late on. Your opponent is just as frightened to bust out as you are. By being more aggressive late on in a tournament you increase your chances of being itm a lot more often.

ariesj11 said:

Hi naruto, you obviously know that you made a mistake not re raising in the first place. I am reading between the lines abit hear, but do you have a fear of the ace coming on the flop when you have big hand likes kings or are trying to make more money with your big hands by just flat calling. Dont make it cheap for your opponent when you have hands like this.

Click to expand...

How much do you think Hero should re-raise?

Because Hindsight is 20/20 and in the moment you actually don't really understand what you are doing

IvanShovski said:

How much do you think Hero should re-raise?

Click to expand...

Hi Ivan, as his m was just over 8 so i would be willing to push all in in this situation. If he min raised or more then i would said that he was pot committed. A raise from middle position can often mean pocket pair or ak aq aj and thats why i would be willing to get my chips all in pre flop as there is only aa that your really worried about. I am not 100 percent sure but i think someone is dealt aces once every 24 times your dealt kings.

naruto_miu said:

Game was Way Early in the day for starters , and B, It was the only one I had going at the time , and C-It was a Free Roll too boot, and I still played it so Horrible

Click to expand...

Why do you think you played it so horribly? (lots of results-oriented comments/thinking in this thread imo). If you think villain is raising wide... flatting is cool imo.. if you think they'll call a shove.. then obviously you're just getting it in here. On 20bb stack, flatting w big PP is sometimes best.. 'it depends'. If you're playing vs. players who actually have a clue, then obv. re-shoving is best as they can assume you're re-shoving fairly wide ... in hopes of them calling you obviously. If you think they're folding to a shove then I'm never shoving. (flatting vs. knowledgeable players would be too obv. that you have a monster imo... so 'player reads' are crucial as many/most aren't knowledgeable).
Did any of that ^ make sense?

ariesj11 said:

Hi Ivan, as his m was just over 8 so i would be willing to push all in in this situation.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree that if he chooses to re-raise, he has little option but to shove.

Poker Orifice said:

If you think villain is raising wide... flatting is cool imo.. if you think they'll call a shove.. then obviously you're just getting it in here. On 20bb stack, flatting w big PP is sometimes best..

Click to expand...

This was my initial reaction when I read OP. We don't want to fold out worse hands.

ariesj11 said:

Hi Ivan, as his m was just over 8 so i would be willing to push all in in this situation. < anything less.. would look way too strong imo (although in a micro buyin they might not even be clued in to this ) If he min raised or more then i would said that he was pot committed.

Click to expand...

Raising as opposed to just shoving would look too strong imo,.. 'but'.. you never know, lol.

Poker Orifice said:

Why do you think you played it so horribly? (lots of results-oriented comments/thinking in this thread imo). If you think villain is raising wide... flatting is cool imo..

Click to expand...

The shorter the stacks the more you should be raising and getting it in rather than flatting when the SPR is low he playes perfectly postflop and you cannot really charge draws.


There is money in the pot, that money represents a sizeable chunk of your stack, you want that money now, not later.

Another way of thinking about it is this..in cash games why do bad players play with short stacks? because post flop is easier. What are you letting him do by flatting when stacks are shallow? Why would you want to let a bad player play a low SPR pot postflop?

Poker Orifice said:

Raising as opposed to just shoving would look too strong imo,.. 'but'.. you never know, lol.

Click to expand...

Dosent matter what it looks like. You should be getting max value form your big hands, if he calls a raise with worse you raise. If he dosent call a raise, you raise ATC.

Unless you are 3betting an insane frequency with the intention of bluffing very very often then there is no reason not to value bet this.

You cant have it both ways. You cant flat with KK because he folds to a raise yet fold (or even worse.. call) QTo because he never calls with worse.

If he folds so much that you cant get value from KK then 3bet him to death with any hand you wont flat with and dont flat with weak hands like QTo.

Of course as soon as you do this you start to realise, people do call with worse.

Stu_Ungar said:

Dosent matter what it looks like. You should be getting max value form your big hands, if he calls a raise with worse you raise. If he dosent call a raise, you raise ATC.

Unless you are 3betting an insane frequency with the intention of bluffing very very often then there is no reason not to value bet this.

You cant have it both ways. You cant flat with KK because he folds to a raise yet fold (or even worse.. call) QTo because he never calls with worse.

If he folds so much that you cant get value from KK then 3bet him to death with any hand you wont flat with and dont flat with weak hands like QTo.

Of course as soon as you do this you start to realise, people do call with worse.

Click to expand...

This is Tournament play.. SS play in tournaments. You're talking about 3-betting him to death, etc.... we're (I'm) talking about 20bb chipstacks (or 20-25bb).

Poker Orifice said:

This is Tournament play.. SS play in tournaments. You're talking about 3-betting him to death, etc.... we're (I'm) talking about 20bb chipstacks (or 20-25bb).

Click to expand...

It makes no difference. If he folds everytime you 3bet then 3bet bluff him all the time. If he dosent fold every time you 3bet then you can 3bet KK for value.

Its one or the other.

Honsetly, bad plays happen. Actual professionals have made horrible plays before the best thing is to accept it, learn from your mistakes and move on. Which I think you already have done.

Stu_Ungar said:

It makes no difference. If he folds everytime you 3bet then 3bet bluff him all the time. If he dosent fold every time you 3bet then you can 3bet KK for value.

Its one or the other.

Click to expand...

Does it matter that the SB and BB are extremely short-stacked and will be getting their money in with a wide range of hands regardless of any raises?

Suppose that you are Villain in MP2, and are playing the style that you suggest above. How do you proceed if Hero: a) calls, or b) shoves?