What exactly do we value bet with?

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theimd

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Theoretically speaking, when are we value betting? Is it when our range has more than 50% equity against our opponent, or is it when our range is currently ahead of our opponent? I mean, sometimes on the flop, you can be currently ahead but has less than 50% equity.

I assume value betting means betting when our range is currently ahead of our opponent.
 
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freestocks

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Well, there's the nuts, then probably the best, likely the winner, then maybe the kicker is better, ... If I feel I have the winning hand, I try and bet an amount that the losing hand might call.
 
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braveslice

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I think Harrington defines value betting, something like this: A bet when you think you are ahead

Maybe being behind and still betting could actually be called as a blocking bet?

In pure mathematical sense the first instinct is to say over 50% equity like you said. Interesting question to ponder, goes to basic elements of poker.
 
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Dwarf

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In general value betting is considered betting (on the river?) when you believe you have the best hand. However, that's betting in general.

If I'm value betting, I'm making a bet that is trying to price an opponent into calling when he has a weaker hand.

Lets say I flopped bottom set, on an A high board, led out on the flop, checked and called 3/4 pot bet on the turn. The river is makes no flushes or straights, I might assume my opponent has an ace, 2 pair or air. If I think hes has 2 pair I might bet the pot expecting a call. If he has Ace high I might bet 3/4 pot.

In my experience a lot of players will call a min raise with air just to see what you have. So if you can get someone with 9high to call, its a pretty good value bet. (Dont give any info away you dont want to.)
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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I think value bet is the bet we make , usually on the river , to extract value , more money/chps , when we already have the nuts or almost the nuts (equity not just 50% , but more than 90%) . When we hit flush on the river , we have the Ace that means the nuts , we can bet for value . Whenever , not just we feel , but we actually have the best hand/nuts , the bet is a 100% value bet .
 
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braveslice

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Value is value, no need to talk about river only. Also @antonis, you can't just make things up because you feel like it, you need to have reasoning behind it too. Why not 100%, why funny number like 90%?

3bet range for example is composed from value range and bluff range.
 
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Reelmookey

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yea i would put it more to when im playing a open ended straight draw or flush draw or even when i have flush and straight draw would be my biggest value betting id put out not only is this for finding here my oppenent is by how fast he/she calls or what his/her body language is to try gain a sense of weather im ahead, when its pairs and kickers il stay on the low end of value betting 2-4x blind(depending on where the pot is) also position play has a huge mathmatical advantage when you know how to value bet correctly you will take down more pots pre-river and as long as your not playing air you should win close to 75% or your not playing properly... In My Opinion
 
thetick33

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if im in the pot I want to bet. I try to get people out of hands unless have the nuts. I am not sure what you mean totally with this question but a lot goes into knowing your opponent
 
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Sidetracked

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You value bet the best hand in order to get weaker hands to pay money in order to try to improve.
 
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Trgbob

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Value bet literally just means a bet that you make to get the most value out of your assumed best hand. Don't over think it too much.
 
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braveslice

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……. Whenever , not just we feel , but we actually have the best hand/nuts , the bet is a 100% value bet .
I think @antonis had the correct idea all along. If we have the absolute nuts we are betting 100% for value, so this is the ultimate value bet, we bet for 100% value. If we have 90% equity, we are betting 90% value. When we bet with 51% equity, we bet 51% value.

However, when we bet with 49% equity, we can’t say we bet 49% for value because more than value we are betting for something else. We are betting 51% non value. So given two choices, betting for value or betting for non value, the difference goes in 50%.

Using expected value for the whole hand, instead of equity, would probably be more logical & accurate bench mark, but probably impossible to use practically.
 
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paipingprung

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I make the mistake of thinking I have the best hand, but not considering what hands will call my bet on the river.
 
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