What does it mean to be Pot Committed?

teh_colonel_saigon · Jun 18, 2014

Pot committed? I hear this all the time, and I've never gotten an explanation for it.

I understand loosely that it means odds are too good to fold. But does it apply on the river, if all you can beat is a bluff?

I mean, is there a better definition to this? or is it just a ratio? (I've read 9:1 somewhere...)

Thanks in advance.

dealio96 · Jun 18, 2014

Pot committed-A player is pot committed or committed if he/she has already invested so many chips into the pot that he/she can no longer fold if he/she is raised all in by the other player. Doesn't matter what street you're on.
pot odds- if a player has invested half of his/her stack into the pot and another player puts him all in, then he will get pot odds of at least 3to1...meaning he must only win 25% of the time to break even over the long haul...if there is more dead money in the pot, then his pot odds go up. In this scenario, the player is pot committed as well.

SwiftHax · Jun 18, 2014

When you commit to the pot by putting a large amount of your stack (around 2/3rds) and can no longer fold even if you think you might be behind or drawing dead.

luckyhearts · Jun 18, 2014

I disagree that being pot committed means u cannot fold....if you get to the river and say miss your flush...why would you call off the remaining 1/3 of your chips??? I see donks say 'I was pot committed' regularly.

MediaBLITZ · Jun 18, 2014

luckyhearts said:
I disagree that being pot committed means u cannot fold....if you get to the river and say miss your flush...why would you call off the remaining 1/3 of your chips??? I see donks say 'I was pot committed' regularly.

Yup.
Let’s say that you’re on the river and you’ve put $999 of a $1,000 stack in to the pot. Just before your opponent bets his final $1, he shows you that he has a Royal Flush, beating your full house. He then bets that last $1. Should you call?
Definitely not. You probably would just for a laugh, but you’re making a $1 loss every single time you call in that situation. There is a 0% chance of winning the $2,000 pot, but a 100% chance of losing $1. That leaves you with an EV of -$1.
Having put $999 in to the pot makes no difference. In fact, you could have put $999,999 in the middle and it wouldn’t change the fact that calling that $1 is negative EV. You have to remember that the odds of winning help dictate whether or not you are pot committed, not just the amount of money you have invested in the pot.

Chemist · Jun 18, 2014

An often mis-used term in live poker as an excuse for making a bad call.

teh_colonel_saigon · Jun 19, 2014

MediaBLITZ said:
Yup.
Let’s say that you’re on the river and you’ve put $999 of a $1,000 stack in to the pot. Just before your opponent bets his final $1, he shows you that he has a Royal Flush, beating your full house. He then bets that last $1. Should you call?
Definitely not. You probably would just for a laugh, but you’re making a $1 loss every single time you call in that situation. There is a 0% chance of winning the $2,000 pot, but a 100% chance of losing $1. That leaves you with an EV of -$1.
Having put $999 in to the pot makes no difference. In fact, you could have put $999,999 in the middle and it wouldn’t change the fact that calling that $1 is negative EV. You have to remember that the odds of winning help dictate whether or not you are pot committed, not just the amount of money you have invested in the pot.

Yea, this is a more dramatic version of the scenario I was envisioning. The term is often misused... I've said it myself after a few lazy calls.

So it only refers to scenarios where you still have some outs, or at least can beat a portion of the hands he could have.

theRaven68 · Jun 19, 2014

Pot committed means that you have invested too many chips into the pot to withdraw from the hand without serious damage to your stack. In that case it is questionable what to do if you see that pot is not on your side, fold or continue with betting often with allin.

razshahan · Jun 21, 2014

Dont be pot committed i.e dont invest too much chips on any draw ( straight or flush draws)

tothbopo · Jun 21, 2014

razshahan said:
Dont be pot committed i.e dont invest too much chips on any draw ( straight or flush draws)

I agree on this one. But definition of pot committed I dont know.

I have heard that if you invest 1/3 of your stack you must be ready to invest all.

But I dont think that means pot committed, you will still be able to play with the rest 2/3.

So no answer from here I am in the dark on this one.

hffjd2000 · Jun 21, 2014

Pot committed is not an odd.

Pot committed is a situation when your pot odds is too great.

Of course, your card odds or strength of your hand is decent or live.

teh_colonel_saigon · Jun 25, 2014

So to be pot committed you must be drawing, or the hand you have must have some percent chance of already being best. The pot odds to continue have to be too good to turn down as well.

I don't think % of your stack in the pot has much to do with it. I can (and have) comfortably folded with about 1/3 of my stack in the pot. (whether it was good to get in that spot is another topic!)

dealio96 · Jun 25, 2014

teh_colonel_saigon said:
So to be pot committed you must be drawing, or the hand you have must have some percent chance of already being best. The pot odds to continue have to be too good to turn down as well.

I don't think % of your stack in the pot has much to do with it. I can (and have) comfortably folded with about 1/3 of my stack in the pot. (whether it was good to get in that spot is another topic!)

I answered your question in the first post, and yes, % of your stack has everything to do with it.

teh_colonel_saigon · Jun 25, 2014

^^Sorry, my post is more in response to tothbopo.

Your post talks about % of stack but it's more about the 3:1 odds. I could see some folds with half your stack gone on the turn and not getting good enough odds to hit a straight w/ no over cards or something like that. I mean, I'm just coming up with ridiculous scenarios at this point, but I think (esp for new players) what should be held in mind is the pot odds to continue and odds to pull through against your opponents possible holdings. 3:1 is probably going to cover is in most all-in scenarios.

Thanks again for the help er'body.

trekmaster · Jun 25, 2014

Pot committed =I knew I was beat or behind but I was to stupid to fold.

Henry Minute · Jun 25, 2014

I think this:
"You are pot committed when the pot odds for the remainder of your stack are greater than your odds of winning the hand."
is a fair definition of pot committed.

It is a quote from this article:
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/concepts/pot-committed/. (it has pretty pictures and everything

)

I searched CC but couldn't find a definition in the 'Poker Terms' thread.

Chemist · Jun 28, 2014

trekmaster said:
Pot committed =I knew I was beat or behind but I was to stupid to fold.

:laugh: *giggles* :laugh:

skiptomyloot · Jul 11, 2014

pot committed is like having 1,000,000 chips.

you put in 500,000.

are you really gonna put 50% of your stack and fold. ?

Vazh93 · Jul 11, 2014

Does not really mean that you can't fold anymore. Just some lame excuse to not let go of a hand.

BigJamo · Jul 12, 2014

Gotta love Pot Committed situations.
Last CC freeroll saw me dump it on the table for a drawing hand.

loafes · Jul 13, 2014

It's okay to be pot committed if the situation was correct. However generally speaking if you're taking a line that is going to commit you to the pot then you're better off putting all the money in so as to avoid a situation where you brick a river and are left with the dregs of your stack. For example if you're semi bluffing with a combo draw and your bet on the turn will leave more than 2/3 of your stack in the middle, then shoving is probably the correct bet.

sj_pi · Jul 13, 2014

Point of no return in the betting where a significant amount of your chips are in the middle and if you lose it you'll feel like a limb is being pulled out without anesthesia.

crocoduck11 · Jul 13, 2014

That moment when you put so many chips in the pot you can't fold regardless of the raise.

joe777 · Jul 13, 2014

Pot-committed is a term that often used as an excuse to make poor calls. Player sometime tend to make a wrong call and justify it to themselves as pot-committed,

tomnovember · Jul 13, 2014

teh_colonel_saigon said:
Pot committed? I hear this all the time, and I've never gotten an explanation for it.

I understand loosely that it means odds are too good to fold. But does it apply on the river, if all you can beat is a bluff?

I mean, is there a better definition to this? or is it just a ratio? (I've read 9:1 somewhere...)

Thanks in advance.

If all the board cards are seen and the villain's hand is also known, you will not even waste a BB if you get beaten. So pot committed means you have too good pot odds much higher than the probability that your hand is worse.

What does it mean to be Pot Committed?

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