What does 3 and 4 bet % mean

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Grindabod

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I play with Poker Tracker 4

I have 3bet% pre and 4bet% pre on my HUD, but how is that actually calculated.

Is the % calculated from all the hands, just like VPIP, or is it a % of the hands that you have already made a bet with.

If I have a VPIP of 50% it means that I play 1/2 of all my hands. If I then have a 3bet% pre of 25% does that then mean that I re-raise 1/4 of the hands I bet or does that mean that mean I re-raise 1/4 of all my hands that I get, i.e. 1/2 of the hands that I bet?

Im a bit confused my self, but perhaps someone could tell me the range of someone who 3 bets 10%. Will he reraise with most pairs and some high cards or is it 10% of the hands he raises with in the first place, and hence only top pair and not much more?
 
Ozzzzy

Ozzzzy

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VPIP - % hands u PLAYS, no matter raise, call, allin. PFR - % hands u raised/re-raised. Thats why pfr always lower than vpip.
 
jgdesabato

jgdesabato

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3-bet 50% chips. 4-bet all in.
 
ccocco

ccocco

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To 3bet got to have a very strong hand, and if that 3 or 4 bet takes you more than 50% of your bank is all in.
 
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Grindabod

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I guess nobody knows :) But after reading up on it, I think it is a % of all my hands, but still not sure.
 
ConDeck

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ImageUploadedByCardsChat1438640125129317

3 bet is calculated as the percentage of times you 3 bet when given the chance to do so.... As you can see from my stats for my current session I do this 9.4% of all hand where there was a PFR before me,

That equates to 1.1% of the time from MP, 5.7% from CO, 9.8% from button, 10.2% from SB and 11.9% from BB.

The 4bet percentage is all of the times you raised a 3 bet when you had the opportunity to do so... As you can also see above I 4bet 13% of the time that I am 3 bet, this varies by position also.

(Just for clarity in case anyone was unsure then the BB is considered a "one bet", an opening pre flop raise is considered a "two bet" and a re raise here is the "3 bet" and so on...)

You can also get 5b % but 100BB deep this is rare as it is usually a shove, your range is already narrow and you are not going to see this often... (Eg. In the 3.5K hands above I haven't 5b once without shoving)
 
ConDeck

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Sorry just realised you stated you use poker tracker... I use HM2 put assuming it is calculated the same way :)
 
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Grindabod

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Thanks. Yes, I presume it will be calculated the same way.

What I am trying to get my head around is the ranges that someone who 3bets, say 10%, may have. I guess it will be the same sort of cards as a VPIP of 10% right? Pairs and high cards.

But I guess the 4 bet% will not reflect the same sort of ranges. In this case you have 2 bettet first with, say 20%, of you hands. And then you get 3 betted. If you then 4 bet 10% of the times, it will 10% of a 20% VPIP range. Does this make sence?
 
jgdesabato

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One of the things that generate doubts tournaments is when 3-betting a hand, or when to re-raise someone.

To explain, when we are on the table the minimum initial bet is the SB, then the BB is obliged to fold (1 bet). So the next raise to happen is the 2-bet (second bet), the re-raise is the 3-bet (third-bet or third bet).

When we pay raise instead of making a 3-bet with a hand that could theoretically do it, we are taking a flat call.

For example if we are in SB, we could choose 3-betting the top 15% of hands.

When we are in that position, it becomes uneasy when only pay the raise and the BB takes a squeeze or simply also paid, as we will then play a pot against more than one opponent and it dramatically decreases the equity our hand. SB is the most common position for 3 betarmos a linear range.

Also, when 3-betamos in positions of blinds (SB and BB) are always out of position against the initial raiser and he will have an advantage over us. For this reason it is much more likely to call the 3-bet than giving a 4-bet or fold.

If we deepstack is even more likely that he will be calling the 3-bet to play in position. Since we will be giving rarely call a raise in the SB (as played out of position) and we will often be paid when 3-betamos we need to have hands that play well. Hands like JTs, KQs, TT, T9s, AJs, are hands that want 3-betting OOP.

3-betting hands like 64s or A5o make little sense since these hands do not play well out of position and as we speak there are high chances of being paid and the villain will take advantage of us.
 
BigCountryGB

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Thanks. Yes, I presume it will be calculated the same way.

What I am trying to get my head around is the ranges that someone who 3bets, say 10%, may have. I guess it will be the same sort of cards as a VPIP of 10% right? Pairs and high cards.

I'm not sure that 3 bet % is going to give you the same range as VPIP %. The 3 bet start is the percentage of time you 3-bet out of the opportunities you had to 3-bet. You won't have an opportunity to 3-bet every hand dealt, so the total number of opportunities won't equal the number of hands dealt.

So, a 3-bet % of say 10% may really be a range of 4-5%.

But I guess the 4 bet% will not reflect the same sort of ranges. In this case you have 2 bettet first with, say 20%, of you hands. And then you get 3 betted. If you then 4 bet 10% of the times, it will 10% of a 20% VPIP range. Does this make sence?

I think you can figure out the 4-bet range by multiplying the 4-bet% by the PFR% since most of the time you will be 4 betting after you already raised.
 
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