Can we actually fold this...?

Hello ppl

Yday i played few tables 5nl fr on stars...
It went complete disaster,with runner runner crap bad beats and leading into super tilt to burn a roll...

So this what happened in hand and i am wondering is this an easy fold... Since i couldnt do it...
I sit on Btn with 99,1 limper in mp,so i make 4bb raise,i get 3bet by bb,mp folds and flop comes 7..9..K raindow,i made c-bet like half of pot and he called,turn came A,and he insta jamms....
Now i was thinking for while what could he have there... And it looked to me like he had AK there....

What should i do in situation like this? Hes stats were usual for fullring (i must notice that i play 6max,but wanted to try Fr cause it got less variance... My a**)

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Oh man sorry to hear all this. Hope you are doing well magicius.

You're about 100x better than me so I'm not sure my opinion will do you much good, but regardless...

I'd never fold there. Getting 3-bet pre is possible with many hands, since you are raising button with only 1 limper. AK is most likely ofc. But there are other possibilities, maybe even AQ all things considered.

AK would probably check-call as well considering pre flop action, allowing you to take a shot at winning a 3-bet pot.

Just shoving on the turn... eh i dunno, there isn't much that beats you here. I'm not sure how much you all had left behind, but if you want to say he turned a set of Aces, (or even flopped a set of kings) then this seems like a particularly odd line for someone to do with the nuts.

Phil Gordon said in his book if you're in set-over-set you'll get stacked and you'll just have to get over it. That's sort of the approach I take (maybe not the best). If that doesn't work for you, then its 16:12 that its AK rather than AA or KK

Plus if you lose you can go out to the kitchen and microwave a burrito

LOL, at the micros though, BB would have flat called pre, so maybe I'm not used to the opponents you are up against.

Assuming stacks are 100bb.

I don't get how you CB first when the BB was closing the action pre flop? Does he check the flop and you bet?

As played we can't fold though...I mean he could have Ax,A7,A9 two pair and of course KK/AA sometimes but those are just coolers. He might 3B 77 pre from the BB. That said, how deep are you both and how tight is villain? If villain is really, really nitty and we're somehow 200bb deep I can fold...he nearly always has AK minimum here and probably AA/KK with this line and how dry the board is to so we have to see how often he takes this line with AK as opposed to AA/KK given he obviously has more AK's in his range than AA/KK - and I can't fold sets at 5nl so I call and see the cooler for one of the other.

If he has AK two pair you still have 3 of a kind. I really don't understand why would you not call this. His chances of having AA/KK were too low here for you to fold. On a board like that he would have jammed on the flop if he had those. Just my opinion.

Rain92 said:

If he has AK two pair you still have 3 of a kind. I really don't understand why would you not call this. His chances of having AA/KK were too low here for you to fold. On a board like that he would have jammed on the flop if he had those. Just my opinion.

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He wouldn't jam AA/KK on a super dry board like that, he wants calls not folds, as played magic I don't know how deep you are on the turn when he jams, I don't think AA/KK would just open jam there unless you're both pot commited call and hope he has AK.

Yea it was like 90-110bb and he did check on flop... Well i guess he played it well.. Just another cooler... I should stop cash games for some time and try focus on good old sng...

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The way on-line cards are dealt you can fold any hand. Manage the bank is the deal.

From the looks, youre way ahead.

I will not think twice but rather put all my money on the center.

hffjd2000 said:

From the looks, youre way ahead.

I will not think twice but rather put all my money on the center.

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Have you thought about >> why would player in BB 3-bet pre & then check this flop? but then gii on turn? What type of hand would you think they're doing this with? @ 2nl tables I can guarantee this is most likely KK... maybe AA... & lesser chance 'AK'. (< I really doubt AK is checking the flop)

Everybody makes a lot of sense above. It would make sense why villain could have KK here, and even AA. With that being said, I am struggling to fold here...

I wouldn't of folded. I believe he had AK

This is a really tricky spot...immediately what have went threw my head is does he really have aa/kk here... it is really hard to get away from a set when your not worried about a straight or a flush.. I probably would have called hoping he had ak

Poker Orifice said:

Have you thought about >> why would player in BB 3-bet pre & then check this flop? but then gii on turn? What type of hand would you think they're doing this with? @ 2nl tables I can guarantee this is most likely KK... maybe AA... & lesser chance 'AK'. (< I really doubt AK is checking the flop)

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this is a good point, i'd definitely make a note on villain so you'll know for next time.

90-110bb's deep

You bet 4bb, he 3bets oop to an undisclosed amount. Usually 3bets oop are going to be in the 4-4.5x range so let's say 24bb.

The real question is how do you plan to play your 99 after you got 3bet and flatted? What's his 3bet range? At micros lots of people have a 3bet range of {KK,AA}.

What I'm getting at is if you whiff the flop how are you proceeding? Are you going to hope his range is worse and proceed? Something like {TT+, AK} still means he has a higher pair than you 55% of the time.

You're 8.5:1 to hit your set, so if you're playing for set mining you need stacks to be deeper than 238 and stack him every time to make set mining worthwhile.

IMO the fold should've come before the set hit. Clearly once that came you can't fold, you put in 25/110 preflop
(Pot=52.5bb) Remaining Stack (85bb)

Then bet 1/2 pot on flop ~25bb
(Pot=102.5bb) Remaining stack (60bb)

Of course you never fold here on his turn shove, that'd be terrible (unless his 3b range was the aforementioned KK/AA in which case now 100% of his range beats you). Try and think more about the plays that got you to the position you ended up in and how you could avoid getting there.

magicius said:

Hello ppl

Yday i played few tables 5nl fr on stars...
It went complete disaster,with runner runner crap bad beats and leading into super tilt to burn a roll...

So this what happened in hand and i am wondering is this an easy fold... Since i couldnt do it...
I sit on Btn with 99,1 limper in mp,so i make 4bb raise,i get 3bet by bb,mp folds and flop comes 7..9..K raindow,i made c-bet like half of pot and he called,turn came A,and he insta jamms....
Now i was thinking for while what could he have there... And it looked to me like he had AK there....

What should i do in situation like this? Hes stats were usual for fullring (i must notice that i play 6max,but wanted to try Fr cause it got less variance... My a**)

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Do not hesitate to move allin with set on dry board if your stack is under 200BBs, do not be afraid of set over set, as you will get the same value if you have a set in your hand.

Moreover, I don't think you opponent will play AA/KK in that way. He will get no value from you if you actually just have TP or less.

Poker Orifice said:

Have you thought about >> why would player in BB 3-bet pre & then check this flop? but then gii on turn? What type of hand would you think they're doing this with? @ 2nl tables I can guarantee this is most likely KK... maybe AA... & lesser chance 'AK'. (< I really doubt AK is checking the flop)

Click to expand...

it was 5nl but anyway you make point,by his previous plays he would 3b/x with wide range of hands,any pocket pair+Ax,when he did shove turn it kinda looked that he hits his A there,or 2 pairs...
he played this hand good,and i was ul with nines i guess...
i didnt think he have KK cause he would think about that A on turn,if i got them

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Mase31683 said:

90-110bb's deep

You bet 4bb, he 3bets oop to an undisclosed amount. Usually 3bets oop are going to be in the 4-4.5x range so let's say 24bb.

The real question is how do you plan to play your 99 after you got 3bet and flatted? What's his 3bet range? At micros lots of people have a 3bet range of {KK,AA}.

What I'm getting at is if you whiff the flop how are you proceeding? Are you going to hope his range is worse and proceed? Something like {TT+, AK} still means he has a higher pair than you 55% of the time.

You're 8.5:1 to hit your set, so if you're playing for set mining you need stacks to be deeper than 238 and stack him every time to make set mining worthwhile.

IMO the fold should've come before the set hit. Clearly once that came you can't fold, you put in 25/110 preflop
(Pot=52.5bb) Remaining Stack (85bb)

Then bet 1/2 pot on flop ~25bb
(Pot=102.5bb) Remaining stack (60bb)

Of course you never fold here on his turn shove, that'd be terrible (unless his 3b range was the aforementioned KK/AA in which case now 100% of his range beats you). Try and think more about the plays that got you to the position you ended up in and how you could avoid getting there.

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that was a small problem here,his 3bet range was a bit wider,and he 3bet really small....9bb....

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Well ...I dont think that all here would fold set even if your ceazy opponent is a nitty one...I think there's nothing to worry about.I would do the same.. praying that idiot do not have kings or aces

sounds to me like good old bluff is what the guy made

I personally wouldn't have hesitated to call in that spot. I would have played it exactly the same way preflop, though post-flop I would have shoved. To me it seems like he was putting you on a draw and just wanted you to fold. That situation feels more like he had AQ than AK to me for some reason. Granted, I wasn't there and have nothing to base his play upon, but still. Just throwing in 2 pennies

From the sound of it,i think for sure he had an AK.Otherwise he would had jammed the pot preflop with AA or KK and sure you will know it.

Wait, did he check to you on the flop after 3-betting pre???

Seems like a red flag to me. 3-betting small pre, check/calling flop and jamming the turn seems awfully like a slowplay. Then again, he could have easily had AK and shipped it in hopes of you calling with a weaker ace thinking his hand was good there.

In Cash Games, I rarely fold a set on a dry board like that because even if I run into a higher set and lose, I don't worry that much because when the situation is reversed, he'll most likely make the same play, so in the long run I'll break even. Especially at 5NL.

In tourneys the situation is different. Early on in the tourney I could make a fold like that, but it largely depends on the buy-in, player pool, blinds structure and starting stacks.