VPIP,pfr and 3bet values

magicius

magicius

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Hello ppl

i play microstakes zoom on stars and for now i am slight winning player on 2nl and losing on 5 nl :(
i try to fix my leaks now.
what is optimum value for vpip/pfr and 3bet?
for now i got it like 21/13/7
 
OldschoolSteinhausen

OldschoolSteinhausen

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Depends. Probably find someone better than you to go over specific preflop situations, thats what will help you improve and find the "right stats". Pretty obvious though, no. I mean you could play 21/13/7 with the worst parts of your range (hands like 23o) but you dont, because you ruled it out of consideration. That is where there is more work to be done for you. Hope that helps =)
 
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trent32la

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Depends on what your playing...6max or full ring....obviously in ZOOM you can play a bit tighter and just look for spots...Talk with someone about those stats since I don't really have any clue how you play at all....if anything show your HH to someone and that could be key :)
 
DrazaFFT

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I dont play zoom but i think that it's only 6 max, right? for 6max you might be slightly too tight preflop but it is ok for a beginner to be tighter while still learning, the pfr is too low, try to open more hands with a raise, avoid limps and the stats will fix by itself
On the other hand it is not stats what makes you a winning player so dont worry about them much, they are in a pretty good range, except PFR, the reason why you lose the money is probably postflop, you might be and probably are to passive post flop (im just assuming that because you are little passive preflop, i might be wrong thou), so post some situation here or on the hands section and try to find where you went wrong...

Just one thing i would advise you to play regular cash game, 6max or FR before you move to zoom, just to get used to reading opponents and adjusting to different play stiles and also stick to 2nl until you crush it, then you most probably wont have any problems to 5nl too
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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Tighter seems better for the zoom type games...
 
magicius

magicius

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that was stats for FR zoom,
pfr is lower due to fact if i hold 910s for example and someone before me raise i flat call and dont 3bet with those kind of hands,i only 3bet with 77+ and AK
Drazo i know regular tables are better but i kinda dont have much time to sit by computer (wife and kid :)) so zoom suits for me (i have -4bb/100 on regular tables)
 
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jj20002

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i think the numbers are ok, i like to be 20/18, so you are pretty close of the game i play, just think you need to limp less and raise preflop a little more, but time will adjust those numbers when you realize what are the best for your game
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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that was stats for FR zoom,
pfr is lower due to fact if i hold 910s for example and someone before me raise i flat call and dont 3bet with those kind of hands,i only 3bet with 77+ and AK
Drazo i know regular tables are better but i kinda dont have much time to sit by computer (wife and kid :)) so zoom suits for me (i have -4bb/100 on regular tables)

yea i can relate to that, also have a wife kiddo and a 50 hours/week job, if the zoom fits you better than go for it, i might have some repulsion to the fast fold games i dont know why, i just like steady full ring table even that i play like hundred hands a day...

Now with a full ring, and this might be wrong for zoom and might only implies to regular full ring 21 percent is a bit higher opening range and pfr and 3 bet is is fine for full ring infact i just look at my stats while i was playing at PKR it is 14/10/7 playing 4k hands one table for about 3 months. might cut down some hands in early position and tighten up a flat range and you will be there...

I saw a good post by jcgrind if i find it ill post it it is about opening ranges at nano limits, great starting point... ill look it up now...
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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here it is
jcgrind said:
i posted this like a year ago when i was 18-24tabling 2NL and absolutely crushing it for something like
18b/100 over a 100k hand sample, so i feel like its pretty god damn ideal. its the strategy i used for
6max games, but it will work very much the same (drop a few of the bottom end of the UTG and MP
range and youre golden). apart from the adjustments you need to make based on opponents
tendencies, ofcourse.
OPENING RANGES
UTG: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, *77-88, Ato
MP: 99+, ATo+, ATs+, KQs+, *77-88, QJs-KJs
CO: 66+, ATo+, A8s+, suited broadway, KQo, *KTo-KJo, QJo
Btn: CO range, + all PP, all sc's 67+, all one gappers 68+ *any two if blinds f2steal>80%
SB: 66+, ATo+, A9s+, QJs/o+, *any two if BB f2steal>70%
BB: purely dependent on who raised. UTG range basically vs anyone other than Btn, SB. Btn range vs
anyone else.
*play if table is passive. i tend to go by whether the people left to act have a 3b stat of less than
8%=passive.
obv this is super broad and changes on table dynamic but its a solid guidline to follow when 12-24
tabling
never call 3bs unless ESS makes sense to do so. no set mining. basically never playing out of blinds
unless im 3bing. big emphasis on looking for mass multitabling nits who i can 3b light, and 3bing as
light as KJs vs the typical fishtard population for value.
as for 3bing;
IP:
- AA: 4b v nit, flat 3b vs lagtard
- KK: same as AA
- QQ: flat 3b, adjust based on texture post
- JJ: same as QQ
- TT: 4b shove vs guys with a bigger 3b range than 8.5%, 4b/fold vs guys with lower than 8.5%
- AK: 4b/6b vs guys with a bigger 3b range than 3%, 4b/fold vs guys with lower than 3%
OOP:
- AA: 3b/5b shove
- KK: same as AA
- QQ: 3b/flat 4b, shove non AK flop
- JJ: 3b/fold
- TT: 3b/fold
-AK: 3b/fold
imo, most of your mistakes and losses will come from postflop play, but at least this will help you
have a better time post flop, by setting yourself up better preflop. with experience and time, as you
develop into a really competent poker player, you will find that it honestly barely matters how you
play preflop (within reason ofcourse) at these levels.
 
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