Using Odds Oracle to figure out equity, am I doing it right?

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GreatLeslie

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Although I have understood ranges for some time, I have recently learned more so to the rule that when playing a hand you should figure what range of hands your opponent may hold, and calculate how often you may be beating their range of hands with your hand etc;?

So do I have it right in this example?

If I have 88 and my opponents range is 36%, I could put into odds Oracle or a similar program, my hand against his range ie 36% which it allows you to do in Odds Oracle. This gives you equity of your chance to win the hand etc; against that range, Have I got this right?

So if I had 57% equity against my opponents range of 36% postflop, i'd then take into account the pot odds and if I was getting anything better than 57% odds then i'd call his bet? correct?
 
LD1977

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Preflop pot odds are less important than position and potential of the hand. If your stack is small you can shove 88 into him and be happy whatever happens, with big stack you can call and try to bink a set or use position to take the pot away if he misses (which he will, a lot).
 
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GreatLeslie

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Yeh, i'm just talking specifically about using the software to make the most profitable moves, and that hand was simply an example. Do I have the logic right as to what i'm doing when using the software?
 
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GreatLeslie

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I'm also referring to postflop, that's what I mean. Is doing it this way with the software correct? ie; plug in your hand vs their range of 36% or whatever it is and go from there postflop? call bets providing you have the right pot odds with your equity?
 
Fknife

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Well, you will get some number for sure but you are missing sh*t loads of crucial concepts along the way such as: your ability to realize your equity or villain's range distribution (+ probably few other things eg: which part of his range you are calculating your equity against etc). Not to mention that if you're going to make 2+ streets calldowns with static equity (which sucks), you need much better pot odds that you think. Also...preflop pot odds are overrated.
 
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GreatLeslie

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Well, you will get some number for sure but you are missing sh*t loads of crucial concepts along the way such as: your ability to realize your equity or villain's range distribution (+ probably few other things eg: which part of his range you are calculating your equity against etc). Not to mention that if you're going to make 2+ streets calldowns with static equity (which sucks), you need much better pot odds that you think. Also...preflop pot odds are overrated.

BIB, isn't that what I meant? your hand vs his range = chance to win (equity)?
 
LD1977

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I will give you an example.

36% range opens, you hold 22. That hand has around 18% equity vs pairs, 50% vs non-pairs, so total equity below 50%. Yet it can still be playable and profitable in position due to set potential and potential to take the pot away due to positional advantage.

Same goes for a hand like JTs (same equity as 22 but hits more boards) and probably many others.

- When 22 hits the flop (set+), you are crushing him. It hits a lot of equity rarely.

- When JTs hits the flop (pair, draw, anything better), it has OKish equity vs his total range, but less equity vs cbetting range (which includes hands that dominate JTs with better kickers, better flush draws etc.). That makes it a bit more difficult to know where you stand and you can make more calling/folding mistakes than with a set.
 
Fknife

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It's actually much easier to realize equity with a hand like JTs (because it retains its equity against strong ranges) than with 22... IMO
 
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GreatLeslie

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I'm really glad i'm getting used to thinking this way in Poker. I think this is how you can truly become profitable when you understand it properly, and hopefully in time I will. I believe I have been doing it how LD1977 has explained it when taking into account a villians preflop range.
 
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GreatLeslie

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I will give you an example.

36% range opens, you hold 22. That hand has around 18% equity vs pairs, 50% vs non-pairs, so total equity below 50%. Yet it can still be playable and profitable in position due to set potential and potential to take the pot away due to positional advantage.

Same goes for a hand like JTs (same equity as 22 but hits more boards) and probably many others.

- When 22 hits the flop (set+), you are crushing him. It hits a lot of equity rarely.

- When JTs hits the flop (pair, draw, anything better), it has OKish equity vs his total range, but less equity vs cbetting range (which includes hands that dominate JTs with better kickers, better flush draws etc.). That makes it a bit more difficult to know where you stand and you can make more calling/folding mistakes than with a set.

Ok, so if you play JTs against his range of 36% and hit middle pair on KJ2 flop, you have 62% equity right and even if an Ace comes on the turn you still have a 44% chance to win the hand at that point, so if you're getting odds lower than 44% such as 20% odds to call, you're making a profitable call against his range right? And should win 44% of the time?
 
LD1977

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It's actually much easier to realize equity with a hand like JTs (because it retains its equity against strong ranges) than with 22... IMO

It goes both ways. You win more pots but you also lose more when you are dominated. Also when he is barreling you need to make correct reads. Is he bluffing or valuing you? Frequencies? Do you call the river with your one pair hand that didn't improve? How big a bet do you call?

With a set you can play pretty much perfectly when IP (ofc you get oversetted sometimes but such is life) and typically the only big decision is if a flush draw completes and he doesn't slow down on the river.

So if we start with the same equity pocket pairs are easier to play.


Obviously a big issue is his XF and BF frequency. If he folds a lot then SC gets better because our sets don't make as much money.
 
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LD1977

LD1977

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Ok, so if you play JTs against his range of 36% and hit middle pair on KJ2 flop, you have 62% equity right and even if an Ace comes on the turn you still have a 44% chance to win the hand at that point, so if you're getting odds lower than 44% such as 20% odds to call, you're making a profitable call against his range right? And should win 44% of the time?

No. He doesn't cbet 100% and doesn't barrel turn 100%.
 
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GreatLeslie

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No. He doesn't cbet 100% and doesn't barrel turn 100%.

Ok, so you're implying that villian wouldn't be continuing with the same range he would have called with preflop postflop, so how do you narrow down what percentage of his range he is calling with or betting with on the flop?

Like would you do it like this?

Flop comes Jh9d3h

Hero has 88

Villian calls our flop bet so I can put him on hands such as:
J9+,98+,3x,22+

Would that be reasonable?
 
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LD1977

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Depends on a player. Stations call wide, megastations never fold, fit-or-folders call narrow.

Also, WTF are we talking about. He raises PFR, we call IP and then somehow we are betting?
 
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GreatLeslie

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Depends on a player. Stations call wide, megastations never fold, fit-or-folders call narrow.

Also, WTF are we talking about. He raises PFR, we call IP and then somehow we are betting?

bet/call. it was just an example
 
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