Is two pair too weak to hang on to ?

Right now, a major leak in my post flop play is fighting like crazy to hang on to my two pair, only to see people draw out on me with full houses and flushes. Are two pair really that weak ? If so, are they worth hanging on to ? I have no problems folding them if I know they are -EV to chase.... but then again, games are so loose, and so many people chase until the very end....

PokerMagpie said:

Right now, a major leak in my post flop play is fighting like crazy to hang on to my two pair, only to see people draw out on me with full houses and flushes. Are two pair really that weak ? If so, are they worth hanging on to ? I have no problems folding them if I know they are -EV to chase.... but then again, games are so loose, and so many people chase until the very end....

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Check/shove more flops.

You will generate more fold equity. 2pair has a lot of equity on the flop so, when called you stand to win quite often.

PokerMagpie said:

Right now, a major leak in my post flop play is fighting like crazy to hang on to my two pair, only to see people draw out on me with full houses and flushes. Are two pair really that weak ? If so, are they worth hanging on to ? I have no problems folding them if I know they are -EV to chase.... but then again, games are so loose, and so many people chase until the very end....

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I know your in limit, i have to tell you they will chase any thing.
However in NL you can play 2 pair, win alot more then you will with 1 pair.

I have nailed players in limit for chasing a draw, just keep a close eye on the board. I have also lost with Aces in limit more then NL, do to them hitting there draws, and 2 pair.
Hope that helps some...

I feel like in limit more players stick around hoping to hit something. But two pair could be great depending on the flop, you need to just look for straight and flush draws.

In NL you can raise them out, or they tend to fold more because they are scared of a big raise later and do not want to give away free chips.

two pair is a very nice hand to play strong on the flop...the only problem is you could be up against draws...usually when we flop 2 pair its with connected cards...KQ for instance...anyone with AJ or 10j has a draw for the nuts...even more outs are created against you if there is a suited board...i have found i have lost alot of hands with 2 pair getting outdrawn

cheers and gl
wooter

i don't play much limit poker, but from the few times i have, most people will call all the way down to see if they can hit something, or even just to see what you have. this is worse at the lower levels obviously. in NL however, the low levels can still be very frustrating, but if you play 2 pair aggressively, you have a better chance of pushing other people off their draws. my general strategy used to be i'd bet around half the pot no matter what. i found that this kept too many people in the hand, so i started raising more, and that works much better. one downside to this, is once in a while you'll have those guys who refuse to fold and raise you all in. sometimes they have it too...

Depending on the players arround you and the preflop betting thats been going on your 2 pair might be the best hand even after the cards to come after the flop.

If you limped in and happend to hit 2 pair there can be a chance someone made higher 2 pair.

It also depends if there is any draws on the table. straights or flushes.
A flop such as 10 Q A can be verry dangerous if your holding 10/A or Q/A.
There's always a chance someone might have called your raise with J/K

But if your holding A/10 and the flop comes A 10 3 then your most likely in favorite since other people would be holding cards such as Q/A or K/A and simply having made top pair.

I'd say 2 pair is a strong hand, as most hands with preflop raises tend to end up with people winning by making just toppair.
Altho if someone pushes all in on you, someone might have called/raised you preflop with pocket hole cards and managed to hit a set on the flop.

I wouldn't try to trap anyone with 2 pair. Too many times it backfires when I give them a free card and they catch their straight or flush. Better to make them pay significantly to see it. Unfortunately, it might be tough to fold to a raise. And you're obviously a big dog if someone flopped a set.

2 pair can be a strong hand. However as with every hand it depends on the flop. You have to make a judgement based on the flop, the opponent and the odds of the other guy hitting trips, a straight or a flush. Every hand is different.

I play NL, and in NL, I have been absolutely crushed by two pair, so it can be a great hand!

But not all two pair are equal. If preflop betting was fairly strong and you have 9-9, a flop of A-K-K is probably not good for you, especially if one of the K is the same suit as the A.

There are lots of examples like that even if your two cards are not suited. The point is, it all depends on the flop and the betting. Strong betting with a flop that seems to be good for an already strong hand can be tough to beat.

-Dave

Generally, 2 pr is a stong but vulnerable hand. Use common scense and be aggressive with it, (bet/raise) so that others don't catch you.

Tom1559 said:

2 pair can be a strong hand. However as with every hand it depends on the flop. You have to make a judgement based on the flop, the opponent and the odds of the other guy hitting trips, a straight or a flush. Every hand is different.

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I've found that I've had a lot of trouble lately with pairs, esp. after the flop...I am forever vigilant against an opponent hitting triples or a flush, but I usually fold if another pair shows up & my opponent immediately bets a large amount against me. I'm fairly new to poker...am I doing the correct thing? I may stay in if I have a really strong feeling that my opponent is bluffing...more often than not, I'm making the correct move.

If you think someone has trips, it is best to fold. How ever if you are checking the hand, they see it as you missing the hand, they will bet.

immediately bets a large amount against me.

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<<<<<< quick tell hes made his set.
that is one tell you want to watch.
Be sure to keep an eye on the time it takes a player to make there move.


Make sure you use the same amount of time, on a made hand, a missed hand.

I'll be more likely to push hard with two pair ( in limit or no limit) if, for instance, I have K6 and the flop comes down K96. Yes, I suppose the 96 could lead to a straight of some sort (somebody having 78..) but depending on pre flop play, chances of this would be rather slim. Anyways, in this case, I would have top pair + bottom pair (top and middle would be even better of course..). I would be in decent position here. I'd be very careful if I had 99 and the flop came down KK5. Chances are good somebody has the K, especially if there are more in the pot. Here, you especially look at pot odds you are getting to call, raise etc, implied odds and possible outs (you have 2 outs really in this situation...I'd hesitate to say the 5 would be an out because that could make someone holding a K a full house).

Even if I had KK and the flop came down 995, I would want to push hard but be very wary of pre-flop/post flop betting patterns as someone may have gotten in to the pot with and A9 or K9....or even 99 in which case you would be totally crushed. My advice is to pay attention and keep an eye on betting patterns. Throwing in a 6x BB bet and getting raised all-in might mean you are toast...

Played it right I think (sigh...)

I just busted out very early in the Doyles FR. Table folded to me in SB with J9 and I called, BB checks and flop comes AJ9 rainbow. I bet min., BB raises min., I minraise again and villain pushes all in (I was hoping for that).
I put him on some kind of A rag, or str8 draw. Nope. He had JJ for a set. I did not see that coming at all as he had not raised PF. Think I played it right tho with my 2 pr. Did I?

Makwa said:

I just busted out very early in the Doyles FR. Table folded to me in SB with J9 and I called, BB checks and flop comes AJ9 rainbow. I bet min., BB raises min., I minraise again and villain pushes all in (I was hoping for that).
I put him on some kind of A rag, or str8 draw. Nope. He had JJ for a set. I did not see that coming at all as he had not raised PF. Think I played it right tho with my 2 pr. Did I?

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With the bb shoving all-in, i would of folded it. Even with a small reraise i would of folded it. On a all-in shove, i would have to think he has a set, that i am beat.
I almost did the same thing, but i checked the hand to see if he would fire out a bet, he did. Thought i had J9, a gut str8 draw, i am glad i did fold he had KK.