Tournament HELP!

Alright well here it goes... I've been playing full tilt poker for like 3-5 months now. I started out with $50 and I did fairly well. The things I did well at is sit and go's' and I was alright at cash games. But I have real troubles placing in large tournaments with 300 people or more. I can never place in the big tourneys and I don't really know why. It seems like every time I lose in a tourney I get so close to placing and I end up losing by donkey who has donk cards. I think I play to tight and get scared in big tournaments. Any suggetions or thoughts? I need big tourney help!!

I moved this to Learning Poker.

I play a lot of MTT's. You probably are playing too tight. Early in the tournament you need to take advantage of the blinds being so small and take down as many small pots as you can. Very early on I try not to get tied up in huge pots unless I am very certain I am ahead. I don't play many hands from early position at all.

As you get closer to the money remember that the short stacks are looking for shove opportunities - and if you are a short stack yourself that is what you should be doing.

If just making it to the money is your goal then you won't play as aggressively as you would if you were shooting for the final table. But you can't let yourself bet blinded out - you probably need to open up your betting and raising ranges from certain positions.


This is very general advice because I don't have enough specifics on your playing style. Also - I am no pro at tournaments. But I have managed to come from where you are to a point where I can get to the money on a consistent basis.

In MTT's playing tight can get pretty much anybody close to the bubble. And you're usually short stacked then.

You don't always need to get it all-in with the best hand.

Chips = power = choices = opportunity, and which is worth risking your neck for (if you don't already have them). So if you are getting low on chips shoving with a coinflip or what's probably a little-less-than-a-coin-flip hand will do a few things:
1) If you shove with 10 bb's left you have enough chips that people will often fold superior hands rather than take that hit to their bankrolls.
2) Even if you're 40% to win that 10 bb shove, winning will give you 20-something (depending on blinds/antes/limpers) bb's which is a decent stack and significantly more chips/power. That is, with 20 bb's doubling up again is *very* significant, and you have enough chips to hurt just about anybody, and you can last a lot more rounds should you not get cards, etc.

So, I think you might be misinterpreting some (certainly not all) of those donk shoves the end.

I guess it boils down to the old poker adage, "You have to be willing to die in order to live."

Agreed, but its also about switching gears in tourney play.
Try entering a few micro MTT's, (Stars do a $0.25 on and Full Tilt do a couple for as low as $0.10) just to experiment. It isn't advisable to get too loose, but do try to mix TAG and LAG in early stages. Its not easy, but there is a happy balance between the two which will help establish a decent stack and a table image not to be ignored early on.
Protecting your stack in an MTT is essential, if you are unsure of a players potential holdings (getting donked by a 'donk with donk cards')? Then get out of the pot. Remember, its usually better to be the aggressor in all-in situations. Unless the table 'blind thief' inadvertantly walks into your Aces!
Abuse the short-stacks in 'push/fold' mode (mentioned above), and avoid the big stacks unless your way below average in chips and looking to double through.
Check the average stack size in the tourney lobby at regular intervals, if your on or above it, there's no need to force the action.
Dont go broke on a mediocre hand, get your money in ahead and at least you can say you went out after playing your best.

kevkojak said:

Abuse the short-stacks in 'push/fold' mode (mentioned above), and avoid the big stacks unless your way below average in chips and looking to double through.
Check the average stack size in the tourney lobby at regular intervals, if your on or above it, there's no need to force the action.
.

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This ^^ I disagree with. For one, don't concern yourself with the lobby or the average chipstack size... it is of little relevance to how you should be playing. More important is to know how to play with your stacksize relative to the size of the blinds & antes. Harrington gives some detailed info. on "M" values and then relates this to how you'd typically be wanting to play at each stage/stack size.
Also.. when there are shorter stacks on your table and say you have a medium-sized stack.... don't be looking to push into the shortstacks...and also adjust your bet-sizing accordingly, taking effective stack sizes into consideration when opening a pot (ie. if there's a couple of shorties to your left, you'll actually want to tighten up a bit.. because if you raise for a standard amount at this point and they shove back on you, you will be more than likely priced in to make the call). Ways in which you can adjust for this is.... let's say BB has 11bb's... SB has 6bb's,.. and you're sitting OTB or CO with something like AJ,.. better off to just shove onto the blinds here instead of opening with a raise.
It's usually better to steal from the other medium-sized stacks, one's who aren't as desperate as the shorties (often a shorty will feel pot committed after putting in his BB... or will be fully aware that you are raising on him with junk if you make a habit of pushing on the shortstacks.... alot of them will call you down and rightly so). Medium-sized stacks are more likely to not defend their big blind, preferring themselves to look for spots where they can raise the blinds, etc. (although if you play into them too often, you'll also be setting yourself up for a resteal).
Look to see who calls down light on the blinds... who's cold-calling often, etc. etc... and then pick your spots. Sometimes it's irregardless of the two cards you're holding.... have a bigblind picked out and if nobody has opened the pot before you.... make your move (something with some showdown value would obviously be better). Don't blind out. <10bb... look to shove it in preflop!!

Blinds escalate rapidly in MTTs and one must adjust in order to keep from blinding out (<< you do not want to blind out.. .this is where reading up on how to play with varying stack sizes, inflection points, & multiple-inflection points in MTT's can be very helpful)... ie. you're on a 14-23bb stack... a very 'awkward-sized' stack (if you open for 2.5 or 3x preflop, then fire a c-bet, you are now pretty much pot-committed so you will usually not want to get involved unless you're willing to go all the way with the hand (this is a generalization as it also depends greatly on the playing style of your opponents, your table image, effective stack sizes, etc.). When on a stack of this size, and if you're finding difficulty in stealing blinds (ie. someone has already opened.. or blinds are huge defenders, table is loose/agg, etc.) then look to 're-steal' instead (if you see a guy who is opening often in late position, taking advantage of some overly tight players in the blinds, look to re-steal on him.... shove it in and pick off his opening raise, the blinds & the antes.... it adds up nicely.

To learn alot more about 'End-game' play, approaching the bubble, etc. I'd strongly encourage you to read Harrington On Hold'em Vol.2 (but you'll also want to read Vol.1 first). I feel it'd help your game out tremendously.

PS.. you're not alone on getting fairly deep in an MTT and then going out while getting it in with the best of it.... it happens.... it's the nature of the beast. You can't just wait for good cards to come your way in later levels of an MTT and hope for them to hold up. You pretty much have to make some moves and also be willing to get it in there on most +EV situations (ie. be prepared to take coinflips.... and cross fingers, lol).

What they/he ^^^^ said.

Another thing about those coinflips-if you're playing within your bankroll you can easily afford to take those +EV situations. Even if I'm on the bubble I (like an idiot) will put my chips in there if I think I have the best of it. And if I'm playing with someone who's playing outside their bankroll (very tight around the bubble) I will take any ANY ANY two cards and steal or resteal if it means his tourney life is on the line (I have a bigger stack than him)!!! Thats the beauty of playing inside your bankroll-you can take those risks.

Lata, Michael

I think you just have to play more tournaments...

You don't get ITM fast in MTT. I think if you are > 20% or so you do well...

So try more and deep runs will come if you play solid poker...

Poker Orifice said:

To learn alot more about 'End-game' play, approaching the bubble, etc. I'd strongly encourage you to read Harrington On Hold'em Vol.2 (but you'll also want to read Vol.1 first). I feel it'd help your game out tremendously.

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I totally agree with that. Harrington on Hold'em Volume 2 helped me tremendously.
I also agree that you should read Volume 1 first, to understand where Volume 2 is coming from.

I'm working my way through volume 1 right now, and its a great set up. Unlike some other books, Harrington gives a strategy, and then several detailed examples that you can work through. It definitely will improve your game if you take the time.

My guess is all you need is more experience. If your approach allows for flexibility and adaptation to changing circumstances (blind levels, relative chip stacks, table position, nearness to bubble, table and player styles), you should be fine. Don't be afraid to fold good starting cards or even the best hand if someone pushes real hard. Picking your spots and being patient can quite often get you past the barrier that's giving you trouble so far.