Thoughts on pre flop bet sizing amounts

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MakeUcryalot

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Reviewing hands for a tourney I'd won second place today and one was a raise of 5 bbs UTG with 88 with about 50bb stack. This was a bounty so i was trying to rope a short stack into shoving and figured it would be safe in case a large stack shove, i could still get away with this. My friend said i should use the same standard bet every single time from every position (2.4-3 bbs). He's extremely profitable to the point of it being his only income, so I tend to believe him but i wanted to get some advice. He has as far as I know never played microstakes as he was basically born for poker and succeeded at higher levels. I believe you have to be as plainly obvious to villains at the micros because a 2-3 bb raise might induce more calls than i want in a hand, hopefully isolating one caller. I was hoping to get seasoned microstakes answers. I assume advice that could be correct at higher levels could not be true for lower stakes.

Ps the tourney was $4 big bounty with 3$ as a price on your head, so people were shoving like crazy, degens everywhere
 
MediaBLITZ

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He is correct as far as it being best to use same opening bet, but it need not be within a 2.4 to 3 range (especially for reasons you stated). Now here's the important point - you need to discover what that bet needs to be to meet your objectives. I agree with you - you may end up with more callers than you want, so you have to experiment a bit to see what the "magic number" for that game, at that table, on that day is going to be. 4BB? 5BB? Once you you find it, stick with it. The whole point is they can't get a read off of your betting because it's the same for 78 suited as it is for AA. It's about being the same, not the actual amount.
 
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MakeUcryalot

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He is correct as far as it being best to use same opening bet, but it need not be within a 2.4 to 3 range (especially for reasons you stated). Now here's the important point - you need to discover what that bet needs to be to meet your objectives. I agree with you - you may end up with more callers than you want, so you have to experiment a bit to see what the "magic number" for that game, at that table, on that day is going to be. 4BB? 5BB? Once you you find it, stick with it. The whole point is they can't get a read off of your betting because it's the same for 78 suited as it is for AA. It's about being the same, not the actual amount.

Hey sorry i didn't see this before. Thank you, that's how I feel because while it might be correct for higher stakes, not so much for micros. I'll typically bet 3 bbs everytime and +1 per caller. When I use a Hud it usually says I'm TAG or Tight Over-bet. But I think the best thing to do is to experiment and like you said, discovering the bet that it needs to be to meet my objectives. Thank you for replying.
 
MattRyder

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I believe you have to be as plainly obvious to villains at the micros because a 2-3 bb raise might induce more calls than i want in a hand, hopefully isolating one caller. I was hoping to get seasoned microstakes answers. I assume advice that could be correct at higher levels could not be true for lower stakes.
Anything other than the standard raise (for the table) gets people to wondering. If they're following you, they'll have an idea of what that means for you. A bigger raise pre-flop from UTG generally tells me that the bettor has a so-so hand and that he really doesn't want to play the hand. 88 would qualify as so-so. On the other hand, a standard bet tells me absolutely nothing about your hand, but it does suggest that you probably have some experience.

As far as what amount micro players will call - I had a player today at a cash table who made it clear that he would call just about any amount pre-flop with any two. That was quite profitable till he busted.
 
dbchristy

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This is the most frustrating part of poker. For me. If I play freerolls or micro, even 5bb dont cut it..I still in up with five ppl in any given hand. and since its a tourny, they are likely gone in a few min. Im all in preflop and still get callers with aces. I really hate aces. I can make my money without prem hands. plus my post flop play needs work!
 
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Ya I hear you Christy. I think you gotta just be really patient where you can isolate yourself with one of these players w a good hand then value bet the crap out of them. And getting it in with aces 4 ways isn't terrible it's a good way to build a big stack at the beginning :)
 
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3x BB is my normal opening bet. 4x BB with AA. But if I am to re-raise, I will also use 3x BB + 1BB per raise/call.
 
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Raising 5 BBs with the intent of folding to a large stack shove is just spewing chips. I understand you wanting to isolate against a short stack, but that can be difficult to from UTG as you have many players to act behind you.

Raising 2.5-3 BBs UTG will next you the same results as raising 5 BBs vs a large stack. If they have a weak hand, they're folding to 2.5 BBs as much as they are 5 BBs. If they have a strong hand, they either call or 3bet you, which you can either fold or call. I'd rather fold 2.5 BBs instead of 5 BBs.

88 is a hand that plays best against multiple opponents as you're more likely to get paid off if your set hits. So, if you think you'll invite more players in with a smaller raise, do so.
 
Serjo600

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I you think that your hand is good for raise on the UTG you must make big bet. And if you wish do moroning your hand you must make limp and in any raise make 3bet or push.
 
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