Suited Connectors

unshyguy

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I've never understood the reasoning behind favoring suited connectors. Where exactly does a 7/8 suited stand up in the odds chart against K/J offsuit (for example)? A further question would be is there really much of a difference statistically between a 7/8 suited and a 6/9 suited? Just curious what you all think of this. Does the fact that they "connect" really make it that much better of a bet than a hand that is still within the range of a straight?

(Btw, I find myself playing some of these hands basically because I've heard you should, and usually being not too satisfied with the results.)
 
AtiFCOD

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I like suited-connected cards, especially 910, 89, 78. Much more chance of havin straight and flush. Moreover I also like playin with like 79s, 810s, 9Js when I can afford it. :)
 
slycbnew

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KJo is a 59% favorite against 87s, and a 62% favorite against 96s.

sc's can flop strong hands of course - any two cards can flop two pair or trips, not that those happen that often - but sc's have the further virtue of being able to flop strong drawing hands. If you're in position with a strong draw, you have alot of options available to you, especially semi-bluffing.

KJo can flop strong draws, but mostly straight draws (the flop has to be monotone for KJo to make a strong flush draw) - suited connectors can flop strong straight and strong flush draws.

As for 96s vs. 87s - in order to flop a strong straight draw, 96s needs to flop:

78x, 345, 457, or JT8

Flopping 578 or 78T gives you a straight.

To flop a strong straight draw, 87s needs to flop:

56x, 9Tx, 96x

Flopping 456, 69T, or 9TJ gives us a straight.

Note that there are more ways to flop 9Tx than 345 (i.e., 9T2, 9T3, 9T4, etc. vs. exactly 345) - there are more ways to flop an OESD w connected cards (87s) than unconnected cards (96s). That means you're going to flop/turn OESD's more frequently w connected than unconnected cards.

Note, though, that semibluffing is a heckuva lot easier in position than out of position - medium and small suited connectors in particular really need position to maximize value.
 
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engman

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Suited connectors isn't a bad hand when there are many people in the pot because you have a chance to get both straight and flush draws. It gives you many outs vs. a premium hand like AAs or KKs, etc.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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they add value to the hand and more chance for straight flush draws
 
Mase31683

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A hand like 78s or 69s is unlikely to be dominated. Versus a raiser, KJ's value is significantly decreased because hitting the king is going to really cost you those times the other player holds AK/KQ.

78s is much better than 69s because of the number of straights each can make using both cards. 69s can make exactly 2, you have to have 78 with either a 5 or 10. 78s can make straights with 456, 569, 69T, and 9TJ. Also the straight draws you flop will be open-ended much more often. If 69s flops a draw to a straight, it will often be a gutterball.
 
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sc's can flop strong hands of course - any two cards can flop two pair or trips, not that those happen that often - but sc's have the further virtue of being able to flop strong drawing hands.

I'd say that in many cases, a single pair with medium/high connectors is sufficient to win the hand.

With 7/8 suited, for instance, when you hit a pair on the flop, both remaining community cards will be lower than your pair about 26% of the time, and only one card will be higher 51% of the time.

With 8/9 suited, both community cards will be lower 35% of the time, and only one card will be higher 49% of the time. With 9/10 suited, the two events will happen 45% of the time each.
 
slycbnew

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Yeah, a pair does beat A high, but you can't be very aggressive in NLHE w 98s on a Q93 flop that doesn't have your suit. So yeah, you can get to a cheap showdown w a pair, but you're not going to win alot.
 
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the more bbs are in play the stronger the hand you want to have. Would you play for stacks 300bb deep with a tptk hand? Hopefully not. suited as well as connected cards give you a larger portion of the deck as "helpers". Kjo specifically is a horrible hand (especially mentally.) you never know where you are with it. But 78s is friendly with over 20 cards and easily folds when the friendly cards dont feel like coming.
 
dwolfg

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Suited connectors lose little pots when it misses and can win big pots when it hits. KJ A9 and such win little pots when everyone misses and lose big pots often when it hits because of kicker domination.
 
thepokerkid123

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Just don't think you're playing SCers for a showdown.

If you're playing them, it's for all of the extra equity they add to your bets throughout the hand, not for their showdown value.

They're a tool to allow you to barrel multiple streets, not something you're going to get to value bet very often.
 
slycbnew

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pokerkid comes through again - that's what I was getting at, but you stated it much more clearly than me...
 
psy0nyd3

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Just don't think you're playing SCers for a showdown.

If you're playing them, it's for all of the extra equity they add to your bets throughout the hand, not for their showdown value.

They're a tool to allow you to barrel multiple streets, not something you're going to get to value bet very often.


So when I'm playing my mid range Sconnectors, given the right situation, I shouldn't hesitate to semi-bluff with my strong draw or represent a made hand?

When I play these I tend to check/call until my hand is made.
 
jh1spartanfan

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So when I'm playing my mid range Sconnectors, given the right situation, I shouldn't hesitate to semi-bluff with my strong draw or represent a made hand?

When I play these I tend to check/call until my hand is made.

IMO, this really depends on the cards that are on the board. Yes, you can semi-bluff, but lets say that you have a flush draw and there is an A and a K on the board or a couple of high cards, most likely if your opponent stayed in they now have or already did have a pair. So, you have to be careful, because most likely a player isn't going to fold aces if they have a good kicker, so now you are going to need to hit.
 
LombardiStix

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So when I'm playing my mid range Sconnectors, given the right situation, I shouldn't hesitate to semi-bluff with my strong draw or represent a made hand?

When I play these I tend to check/call until my hand is made.

You're giving away a lot of information when doing so. You look like you're on a draw which is never a good way to get paid off when you hit. People who pay attention, know others are playing SC's and are aware if you look like you're drawing to a hand. I'm just sayin you leave yourself open to exploitation. You also get limited information on your opponent by check-calling.

Stix
 
c9h13no3

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Suited connectors flop draws. Draws are good for 2 things:

1) Semi-bluffing.
2) Implied odds.

If you can't get your opponent to fold, or he won't pay you off when you hit (or he won't keep the pot small long enough for you to hit cheaply), you should probably just muck'em preflop. Suited connectors are usually a disaster to play against maniacs or loose-passive fish types. And given the stakes most of you play, your opponents are usually loose-passive fish or maniacs. So I find it odd that this thread is getting so much attention.
 
greywind50

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i only play suited connectores from late position with at least two opps limping before me. SO...I don't play them very often
 
thunder1276

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medium suited connectors are good in multi way pots. they are good because they have a good chance at hitting a straight or flush draw and if you hit it then you can win a rather large pot. bb
 
thepokerkid123

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So when I'm playing my mid range Sconnectors, given the right situation, I shouldn't hesitate to semi-bluff with my strong draw or represent a made hand?

When I play these I tend to check/call until my hand is made.

I really can't answer this well. It's too situational.

It's complicated, don't make any major adjustments just because you've got a draw, except:
Be more willing to draw vs a calling station, and more willing to play it aggressively vs a TAG.
Be more willing to call in position and just about never call out of position.
Also see this thread: You donk, you bet a draw!!!

Although as c9 mentioned, SCers are next to useless against loose fish (most micro stakes players).
imo, you're usually far better off with K9o than 67s against calling stations.
If your opponent is going to see showdowns on a regular basis, don't trick yourself into thinking you've got enough implied odds to make up for all of times you don't make your hand, you don't, just grab a top pair type hand and value town it.
 
Weregoat

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The term semibluff comes to mind.

I have 7s8s, villian is a TAG (12, 8?), stacks of 300 BBs.

Villain raises to 4 BBs, folded to me in position, I call.
Flop: 7dQs3h.
Villain bets 8 BBs. In villain's range I'm ahead of AK, AJ, and behind 88+. Villain's pot sized bet eliminates my odds to call for my direct odds to call for two pair/trips (2:1 on a 9:1 shot), but stack sizes and the out or two I get from my back door flush draw I decide to call (because I'm drunk).

Turn gives me a low spade. Villain bets pot.

I can now raise him, he may fold some hands in his range (that are beating me 88-JJ especally) and villain may worry he's behind to a set, two pair, etc, and dump hands like TpTk, however this doesn't happen often. I also would be surprised to see villain fold KK or AA here. Suppose villain has AQ with no spade, I've gone from 5 outs (~10% to improve per street), to 14 outs (~29% to improve per street), and villain is folding x% of his range. My raise of 3x his pot sized bet could win me a ~72 BB pot, or give me a 30% chance to win a ~120 BB pot if he calls. You just gotta watch out for the reraise jam, and it really helps if you watch villain's tendancies.

If villain has a hand he's not particularly thrilled with that's not likely to improve here, like JJ or TT, he'll more than likely be willing to lay it down unless he has a good read on you, or has been watching your tendancies.

Another long winded post...

WG
 
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cibonazg

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suited connectors i really like...
very very nice hand to play...
it gives as it mentioned before several times, many possibilities as straight, flush...i supose i don t need to point at a pair hehe...
so if there are no over agressive player and if you can see fairly cheap flop i am always playing it...
and i had really nice hands with it...
 
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I love suited connectors. I call them 'ace busters.' Lots of opportunities to semi-bluff. 1/2 pot or 3/4 pot will get your opponents to fold. Or if you do make it (straight or flush), you are going to take someone's stack away especially if they fell in love with their AA or KK. if you do play suited connects and completely hit air on the flop, it's really easy to fold.
 
salim271

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Ignoring all the math... they're good for busting big pocket pairs. Aces never fold on a 78J board when you shove on them (unless they're REALLY good players who know you're a scheming rat bastard).

Imo suited connectors are a type of hand that you wanna see a cheap flop in position or out of position and trying to hit trips/straight/flush... it can backfire really quick, don't be surprised when your opponents (you'll probably have multiple if you're limping with loose players) turn over boats/higher straights/higher flushes.

You don't need suited connectors to win at tourney poker, can they help? Yes.
 
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swingro

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U can play them exactely like small pocket pairs. To see the flop for a small price. They are good to play with more than 3 ppl to see the flop when someone raised 2-3 BB. U hit one of twelve times but when u hit it u can make good money . But remember . Never call if someone raised and every body fold because u will not make profit even if u hit. That is the same with pocket pairs. What good is to hit a set with only one opponent that will fold after u will raise the flop.

And another thing . They have to be played from the cut-off to the BB when u see what all the ppl before u did. If u limp and someone raise and another one reraise u just gave away free chips. If somehow it is a loose passive table u can limp with suited connectors almost from anywhere. This happens many times with the freerolls in the middle stage. Half of the tables become loose passive meaning a lots of donks limping and nobody raise.
 
thepokerkid123

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Ignoring all the math... they're good for busting big pocket pairs. Aces never fold on a 78J board when you shove on them (unless they're REALLY good players who know you're a scheming rat bastard).

Imo suited connectors are a type of hand that you wanna see a cheap flop in position or out of position and trying to hit trips/straight/flush... it can backfire really quick, don't be surprised when your opponents (you'll probably have multiple if you're limping with loose players) turn over boats/higher straights/higher flushes.

Problems:
You're very rarely going to actually make your hand.
Going in with smaller cards you're going to be dominated a lot more often than normal and you're going to do a lot of donating.
 
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