studying tips, tricks and advice needed

J

jaykay3737

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Hello lovely, knowledgeable and friendly folk of the Cardschat community.


Ok, it may help the rest of the post make a little sense if i try and briefly explain my story so far in getting to the point of writing this post and reaching out to you guys and girls.
I've been a casual online micro MTT player for around 3 years, but have recently developed some bankroll management discipline along with a desire for knowledge and improvement.
Current studying efforts tend to consist of watching a few youtube videos here and there, reading a few articles and saving a few hands to a replayer to have a look at after i bust out or before another session. And also recently scanning through this forum looking for tasty threads that jump out at me (i think i'm gonna like it here).


The problem is this. This is ok in ways as it is at least getting my brain thinking about the game regularly so therefore i'm not completely wasting my time, but i'm aware this isn't the most effective way to go about things long term.
Can anyone reading who's been further along the poker path relate to these thoughts? I suppose i'm looking for advice on how to transfer from random poker related activities to having some kind of a study plan/guide with some confidence that it's improving me as a poker player.



I know there isn't a 'one size fits all' learning strategy, and that's not what i'm after. You can ask two master bakers to make you a cake, and they may well both make them fairly different but both produce you a delicious cake (i like using cake analogies, i have a theory that just using the word cake in a forum post automatically gets you more views).



Anyone who has started at the micro MTT's and progressed from there, what has worked for you to improve? What things did you perhaps have in a study routine but decided to leave aside as it maybe didn't prove to be as helpful as you had hoped? What concepts are necessary to have a firm grasp of at micro limits, and what stuff is better to leave aside for the time being as perhaps being a little too overkill for these stakes?



My thoughts on a study guide i'm putting together currently look something like this based on a minimum of 6 hours study per week:
2 hours reading (articles, books i have recently ordered, forum threads)
2 hours watching (youtube, twitch etc)
2 hours post play reviewing hands.



I hope this thread also helps anyone else who is at this stage of there journey. I look forward to your replies and feel free to link to any threads i may have missed that help answer some of these points.
I hope some of this makes sense to those reading and i have got across my rambling thoughts ok.


Thanks

Jay




Now where can i find some cake this time of night........
 
A

AviCKter

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I'm one of the people who've grinded it up, starting from the lowest buy-ins. Off course, I can relate to a lot of things you're speaking of, poker can be overwhelming.

So here's my take:
1. At the very beginning I was too concerned about advanced concepts, concepts like heads-up, concepts like 3-bet stealing/shoving/folding, although these concepts are good to learn and have in your arsenal. The micro-stakes hardly have players that will think twice before playing. They wouldn't respect it. So, I let those concepts be reserved for a more complicated opponents (higher buy-ins) and rather played straight forward in the micros.
2. Although the aim in any particular hand must be to maximize our EV, calculating them takes time and too much energy. I'm off course talking about off the table studies. Micro-stakes doesn't need it, all you need to concern yourself is the range of the opponents and basic odds/outs (equity) calculations. Take some time to study the various hand combinations, and there relevant equities.
3. Navigating the various phases is not a skill most people have and most people don't even recognize the urgency of it. If you've played some tournaments, you must have surely recognized players who play the same hands at every stage of the tournaments, like they'll only open the top 5% hands EP even in late stages, which is a bad-bad idea. So, you must learn to play each stages of the tournament as best as possible and not become stuck to cards. This skill you'll have to develop.
4. Invest some time in to developing a short-stack strategy.
5. Invest some time playing SnGs, a lot of concepts you're going to learn can be easily applied on them. And it will keep you in practice.
6. Once I was familiar with the concepts and started playing, I would keep some time off for hand-history review. When going for hand-history review, go for the complete history, not just one particular hand. See if you made any mistakes in any hand and if it can be improved.
7. Have a good/disciplined Bankroll Management in place. A lot of people might think you should move up the stakes, but I was patient when I was trying anything of that sort on Pokerstars. At one time, I had a 200 Buy-in management system, which is way too much in most people's opinion. But as I've experienced, there was a period of 89 tournaments where I didn't win any money and that will happen to most people when they hit volumes and you'll have to protect yourself against going broke, rather than being arrogant and foolish.
8. Lastly, listen to people's advice, learn from it, but always do what you feel is right.
 
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jaykay3737

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Thank you for taking the time for a detailed reply. It's appreciated.

I think overwhelming is accurate, so to deal with this my aim currently is simple, and that is to break down what is most valuable for me to currently work on for micro MTT level.
Whilst a general awareness of some of the more advanced concepts can't be a bad thing for education long term, i think its much more important for me to figure out what right now is going to help me continue on an upward curve at my current level.



So this brings me to my next question. How do you go about 'studying with purpose' so to speak? For example, how do we train to not become results orientated when analysing hands? Is there useful checklists to use on the hands we wish to look at in order to be consistent in your thinking, or does anyone find it useful to group different hands into different catagories and look specific plays that way?



Are our long term results really the only sure fire way to know with confidence that our studying is having a postive outcome on our game?



Lastly (for now) can anyone recommend any simple software for tracking profit/ loss and bankroll tracking?


Thanks

Jay
 
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Supmargy

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I'm one of the people who've grinded it up, starting from the lowest buy-ins. Off course, I can relate to a lot of things you're speaking of, poker can be overwhelming.

So here's my take:
1. At the very beginning I was too concerned about advanced concepts, concepts like heads-up, concepts like 3-bet stealing/shoving/folding, although these concepts are good to learn and have in your arsenal. The micro-stakes hardly have players that will think twice before playing. They wouldn't respect it. So, I let those concepts be reserved for a more complicated opponents (higher buy-ins) and rather played straight forward in the micros.
2. Although the aim in any particular hand must be to maximize our EV, calculating them takes time and too much energy. I'm off course talking about off the table studies. Micro-stakes doesn't need it, all you need to concern yourself is the range of the opponents and basic odds/outs (equity) calculations. Take some time to study the various hand combinations, and there relevant equities.
3. Navigating the various phases is not a skill most people have and most people don't even recognize the urgency of it. If you've played some tournaments, you must have surely recognized players who play the same hands at every stage of the tournaments, like they'll only open the top 5% hands EP even in late stages, which is a bad-bad idea. So, you must learn to play each stages of the tournament as best as possible and not become stuck to cards. This skill you'll have to develop.
4. Invest some time in to developing a short-stack strategy.
5. Invest some time playing SnGs, a lot of concepts you're going to learn can be easily applied on them. And it will keep you in practice.
6. Once I was familiar with the concepts and started playing, I would keep some time off for hand-history review. When going for hand-history review, go for the complete history, not just one particular hand. See if you made any mistakes in any hand and if it can be improved.
7. Have a good/disciplined Bankroll Management in place. A lot of people might think you should move up the stakes, but I was patient when I was trying anything of that sort on Pokerstars. At one time, I had a 200 Buy-in management system, which is way too much in most people's opinion. But as I've experienced, there was a period of 89 tournaments where I didn't win any money and that will happen to most people when they hit volumes and you'll have to protect yourself against going broke, rather than being arrogant and foolish.
8. Lastly, listen to people's advice, learn from it, but always do what you feel is right.

Thanks for writing this down. I've been playing for 3 months and haven't bothered to take some time out to study the equity of hands. I've thought of it, but always put it off. Now there's more urgency to it.
 
A

AviCKter

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So this brings me to my next question. How do you go about 'studying with purpose' so to speak? For example, how do we train to not become results orientated when analysing hands? Is there useful checklists to use on the hands we wish to look at in order to be consistent in your thinking, or does anyone find it useful to group different hands into different catagories and look specific plays that way?

Are our long term results really the only sure fire way to know with confidence that our studying is having a postive outcome on our game?

Lastly (for now) can anyone recommend any simple software for tracking profit/ loss and bankroll tracking?

Thanks
Jay

"Studying with purpose", hmm. I can go on writing a whole post on motivation, commitment, etc etc; but honestly that's not going to help.

This is what I would recommend, I'm drawing a lot of parallels from my own experience.
  • You have to define an overall goal for yourself: "I want to become a mid-stake tournament grinder", "I want to be a respectable professional poker player", etc.
  • Once you've defined your goals, set small milestones: "I want to hit 20000 SnG volume in x months and make a profit of +y", "I want to make $x by this timeline", "I want to be good at 3-bet calling/folding range", etc.
  • Whenever you hit your milestones, have a little bit of celebration.
  • Keep a personal journal to keep track of your own progress.

Once you're through with this process, most things will come naturally to you. But understand this, initially it won't be so easy to get away from result-oriented thinking. I know how many times I have beaten myself over it, and you know what I still do sometimes. So you can't be 100% ignorant about it, but you'll learn to not bother yourself with it.

PokerTracker or Holdem Manager, they're are a necessity if you intend to make a run.

Take one step at a time. Don't rush through. Its a process, & it takes time. Learn & enjoy every bit of it.
 
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