Struggling to play by the book

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Kliedz Zivju

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ive read a few book now and all the advise i follow doesnt seem to give me the edge as players really dont seem to give my hand any credit and just call bets too the end. is there a common flaw in my game that i am not picking up on?
 
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16clumsyandshy

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Which specific strategies are you trying to implement in your game? If people are calling your bluffs then you may have to adjust to the other players at your table. I think this is the most important thing to remember first, to be aware of what you can and cannot get away with. Other players may not be giving you credit if you have lost a lot to them before, so maybe you have to build a reputation as having good cards before you can pull off some bluffs.
 
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Kliedz Zivju

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so far i have read winning at poker, this taught me too play very strong hands play tight and win big, i put this in to practise as my main game. too this i added doyle bronsons super system which i gave a couple of reads but took the information with a pinch of salt but took some good advise from. i am currently reading ken warren teaches poker. my problem is when i hit on the flop (a top pair) and the flop is uncoordinated. i will put in a nice protection bet, if the 4th card out is a rag i will put a nice big bet in. and players just hang on with a pair of 2s and seem to hit the final card and make 2 pair. the earlier example which frustrated me too ask what my issue is. i limped in with K/4 not suited on the big blind. i flopped a king and 2 rags so i made a pot bet. everyone bar one player out of position folded the turn was a 2. naturally i thought this improved his hand 0. the river was a j... completeing his hand of 2 pair j/2 off suit. this player was not big blind. ive had simmilar things happen haha sorry if this is just waffle.... maybe i need to watch the game alot more....
 
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When you say you limped in w/ K/4 offsuit on the the big blind, do you mean there were no raises and you just checked your option? Or was there a raise you called?

Also, why did you bet pot on the flop? How many people were in the hand? What were the "rags" that flopped with the King? You're play on this particular hand probably wasn't great, going on what you said and what is missing.

But yes, you took a bad beat on that hand. However, assuming you're playing well overall, the wins will come. You can go a couple hundred hands (or longer) on a downswing. That's why bankroll management is important.

I would suggest reading "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky for overall general poker theory, and then "Phil Gordon's Little Green Book" for basic introductory lessons specific to no-limit holdem. Brunson's Super System books are good, but Phil Gordon's books are much more beginner friendly.
 
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Kliedz Zivju

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yeah i limped in with no raise i would usually fold this hand but the circumstances seemed ok too limp in. i think 4 players also limped inj but all folded apart from the player with probably the worst hand. i guess i need to read up on my betting, thanks for the advice on bankroll management ive skipped over these chapters and give them a read. the tips on books too read is great aswell im pretty knew and not really involved with a big poker community in my home town. advise is far and few XD these sugestions are great tho i have seen these titles and not known wether or not too go for them.

i see my play needs alot of fine tuning if my flaws are so clear. what is the issue with a pot bet? i generally use the pot bet too indicate they i have an ok hand at this point. i am hoping anyone with a bad draw that limped in would fold, unless they had a great hand. the friend i have that i play poker with always laughs at my betting techniques.
 
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Are you playing cash games or tournys?
Is this at micro stakes? Because at micro stakes playing by the book doesn't work all the time. Next time you get a calling station, just mark it in your notes and take advantage of that player when you have a monster.
 
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PLAYFUL1

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Playful never plays the book because they are written by nuns in Peru who know nothong aboot poker lol
 
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16clumsyandshy

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Sounds like you're just having some bad luck. Don't judge your play by the results. You could lose several times in a row with AA but that doesn't mean that you should start to fold it...
 
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iFishForFlush

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Variance can easily kick your ass, and some people tend to play bad when on a losing streak which adds insult to injury speaking of your bankroll. Best thing to do is take a breather and keep playing solid.
 
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I agree with fish. Variance comes into play, especially at micro stakes, because so many players don't care to play poker, just bingo. So you are bound to see some terrible players hit hands they shouldn't even be in. So make notes on who chases bad positions in order to suckout, and take advantage of them when you know they will call down your monsters with nothing.
 
firstcrack

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Just keep playing. It's kind of like sports where you need to get your reps in before your instincts can take over and guide you through the sticky spots. For example, after you have played A K enough to realize it is a drawing hand, you'll be able to fold it in key spots to live another day. Same hand in the next game, but different circumstances, you'll see that all-in is in deed the correct play--not because you're remembering page 80 of a certain book, but because you are a serious player and you are being rewarded for your experience. The same can be said of any quality starting hand. You start to get a sense of the landscape and trust your instincts more.
 
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Kliedz Zivju

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ahh i see... the stakes i have been playing are less than micro ive been playing free rolls in the open skills league thanks for all the information its of great help to me as a beginner and i will take all this in an hopefully notice some improvement over the next few months. sound advise tho cheers XD my notes tabs are gonna start being my ultimate back up. thats great
 
strodawg

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ive read a few book now and all the advise i follow doesnt seem to give me the edge as players really dont seem to give my hand any credit and just call bets too the end. is there a common flaw in my game that i am not picking up on?

there isn't u just have to be patient and wait them out they are ppl that have no cared for their bankrolls. they will shove shove and shove as well as call call and call. U have to slow play and only got thru with the best hand and only chase for cheap. They arent playing on skill what so ever and they will get lucky for so long then u can just slow play and eat em up.
 
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Sohmurr

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yeah i limped in with no raise i would usually fold this hand but the circumstances seemed ok too limp in. i think 4 players also limped inj but all folded apart from the player with probably the worst hand. i guess i need to read up on my betting, thanks for the advice on bankroll management ive skipped over these chapters and give them a read. the tips on books too read is great aswell im pretty knew and not really involved with a big poker community in my home town. advise is far and few XD these sugestions are great tho i have seen these titles and not known wether or not too go for them.

i see my play needs alot of fine tuning if my flaws are so clear. what is the issue with a pot bet? i generally use the pot bet too indicate they i have an ok hand at this point. i am hoping anyone with a bad draw that limped in would fold, unless they had a great hand. the friend i have that i play poker with always laughs at my betting techniques.

Ok, a few pointers:

If you were on the big blind (BB), and no one raised preflop, it's not called limping, it's called checking. Limping is when you have a hand preflop and you just call the BB instead of raising. But because you were the BB, the money was forced in before the cards were dealt and you didn't have to call anything because nobody raised preflop. It's a small detail, but using correct terminology will help people better understand your hands if you post a question about how you played or something.

Next is your hand. Even though you flopped top pair, your hand isn't that strong because you have such a weak kicker (the 4). And depending on what those two "rags" are, someone could be drawing to a flush or straight, or maybe has two pair. It turns out you had the best hand at the time, and just got unlucky. But be sure not to overvalue top pair, it's not a strong hand.

Lastly, your bet on the flop. You said 4 players limped in. So 5 people saw the flop. Even if the small blind was one of the limpers, that means you bet a weak top pair hand with 3 people behind. Why did you bet at all? Yes, you have top pair, but how often is a worse hand going to call here? If there is a potential flush or straight draw out there, someone may call and you could get value from them, but most of the time you don't gain value from a bet here. Personally, I would have checked the flop. If it gets checked all around and the turn doesn't look like it helped anyone much, then I might make a bet of 1/2 pot to 2/3 pot. Why? Because people are often more likely to call with a weaker hand if the flop is checked. And with a smaller bet size, worse hands are more likely to call.

There's a lot I could say, but I'll just repeat the advice about the books. Find a very beginner friendly poker book and study the fundamentals. It will make a drastic improvement in your poker game.
 
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amadeusace

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2 things are going wrong with books when the readers come to practice (I had the same problems)

1. Bet size (where, who, why).
2. Table adoption (play against certain players).
3. Pot geometry (Controll your pot at your willing).
4. Value (what is gonna pay you when you have it. What is gonna fold when you don't have it)

Try to work on those 4 things and you will see big difference on your game.

Later you learn about strategic lines against player types, but that's a different post 😉
 
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Kliedz Zivju

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ok cheers i think ive studied pretty well on a basic poker stratergy so i will go back to this and practise hard for a month and maybe then try ans spice things up a little when i have a better idea on how too structure my betting and have a better idea on why my opponents decided too play a hand. cheers for the pointers its a great help for me. ive not been too dishartend yett and ive had alot of losses so over all im enjoying myself so i think i will stick at it and go back too the beginning with my reading....

thanks all for taking the time in explaining your opinions, no doubt i will be back on with more inquires too my play style. appologies for the lack of grammar and probable amount of awful spelling.
 
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no books written about poker in my country, maybe there but I did not found that I'd probably read, English is my bad :), so perhaps this reason that I have not read any book ;)
 
thetick33

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ahh i see... the stakes i have been playing are less than micro ive been playing free rolls in the open skills league thanks for all the information its of great help to me as a beginner and i will take all this in an hopefully notice some improvement over the next few months. sound advise tho cheers XD my notes tabs are gonna start being my ultimate back up. thats great

watch some videos freerolls are a different kettle of fish cardschat has some good videos so does twitch etc.. I watched like 2 months of some of top players online playing acr and twitch it really opened my eyes. I implemented some strategies and it worked fairly well for me. There is no one perfect system. You got to learn your own toolbox and be prepared to use what and when is necessary. Again even after 2 hours in a freeroll you might run into some HUGE donkey it happens. You move on to the next. Good thing is all you invested is time and not your bankroll so is good practice but will not work all the time.

I do well at freerolls but have played many many many years and hands. I know when I have to turn it on etc.. it helps. I can feel the right times so to speak but that is by years of application.

The goal for anyone should be to be successful in bankroll managment and be able to play 1-2 1-3 poker. If can get to 2-4 in ring and be successful your on your way in my opinion and you just need to work on other things like mtts accepting variance cause it will happen and learning when to not play or walk away etc..

In time imho poker gets easier but still will give most of us fits that play daily lol.

So write notes on players this is a big step and use them later in tourneys etc.. Take your time figure out where you want to get to have real goals follow brm that you set and rules of when to walk so dont lost entire roll etc..

Its not easy know plenty whove topped out at major money and lost it all and had to take time readjust relearn and start stacking again.

gl
 
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authors of books are different, everyone to listen to this suicide.
you read different and you take for yourself useful information and proceeding from it you arrange the style
 
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Kliedz Zivju

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thanks for this, the tips mean a great deal too me. thankfully i seem to have a lot of patients for this game the loss are pretty devastating but i can handle it if i feel i played OK. when i play bad it makes me want too improve and lock down my discipline. the rush from playing well and it paying off is great even when their is no money involved. i have been eager too start throwing money in. after what I've heard from just one small incident of play i realise that a lot is too be said. i think this month i will focus on playing a tight game too the book and watch many videos on successful online play and see how it compares too how i am playing. i am focusing on the open skill league currently. last month i positioned 8000. my aim is too end in the top 2000.

what kind of notes should i take on players? i have been attempting to note how often players call or fold and what they are likely too go all in on. my next step was too make a colour code system for labelling players with a colour too their play styles. the only issue i have found with this is, when the game is quite high paced i loose focus on my game and spend too much time concentrating on weather players are calling folding or raising.

is play money still valid practise too compare too the open skill league.
i think i need too adventure through this sight a lot more and read through forums i guess this will answer most of my questions. i,m happy to have found a great online poker community willing too help others. the only bad point i have found from playing is some attitudes in game are displeasing i notice more experienced players will react badly too poor decisions rather than point out the mistakes i am making.

since i started this post and got some feed back the changes i have made have been; go back to the basic strategy i learned for beginners and try not end up in a situation were i am all in (before all 5 cards are out) by controlling my betting structure. and not over valuing pairs when the flop is wet. so far i have managed to get at least 2 hrs through each tournament this way, i have not got lucky as often and ended up in a big chip situation but i feel i'm getting a lot more experience from this play and i have not gone broke within the first hour... yet. well see how the month unfolds i feel pretty confident i am only improving the more i play.
 
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